Brianstorming a Better Way : Cognitive Reframing and Adaptive Modes of Cognitive Reappraisal

Brianstorming a Better Way : Cognitive Reframing and Adaptive Modes of Cognitive Reappraisal

Jeffrey Besecker:
This is The Light Inside. I'm Jeffrey Besecker. Our mental constructs, they shape our perception of life, guiding how we see the world. However, they often become clouded and distorted by our beliefs, paradoxically leading to both beneficial and adverse effects simultaneously. Yet as a result of them, we can gain some key insights into our subconscious and unconscious patterns, helping us to become more adaptive. But here's the thing. Discomforting as it may be, it's often our past histories that serve as fertile ground for beneficial growth, as we selectively focus on their more beneficial details. In the face of emotionally charged situations and challenging circumstances, we can develop new perspectives and transformative attitudes. But how do we turn this perspective of struggle into incremental actions that foster effective development and optimal growth? The answer? By reframing our beliefs and perspectives. Cognitive appraisals allow us to reassess this invaluable data from our past experiences and turn it into fuel for exponential growth. Today we join Khalid Whitehour as we unravel the inspired lessons he has learned from his story of growing up in a difficult environment and facing several hardships, including family abandonment and abuse. illustrating how we can reframe challenging experiences and turn them into life's greatest lessons. Tune in to find out how Khalid developed these empowering skills, tools, and abilities when we return to The Light Inside. When it comes to mobile service providers, with their high-rate plans, extra fees, and hidden cost or expenses, many of the big-name networks leave a bad taste in your mouth. Mint Mobile is a new flavor of mobile network service, sharing all the same reliable features of the big name brands, yet at a fraction of the cost. I recently made the change to Mint Mobile and I can't believe the monthly savings, allowing me to put more money in my pocket for the things which truly light me up inside. Making the switch to Mint Mobile is easy. Hosted on the T-Mobile 5G network, Mint gives you premium wireless service on the nation's largest 5G network. With bulk savings on flexible plan options, Mint offers 3-, 6-, and 12-month plans, and the more months you buy, the more you save. Plus, you can also keep your current phone or upgrade to a new one, keep your current number or change to a new one as well, and all of your contact's apps and photos will seamlessly and effortlessly follow you to your new low-cost Mint provider. Did I mention the best part? You keep more money in your pocket. And with Mint's referral plan, you can rescue more friends from big wireless bills while earning up to $90 for each referral. Visit our Mint Mobile affiliate link at thelightinside.site forward slash sponsors for additional mobile savings or activate your plan in minutes with the Mint Mobile app. It's often said of life, we fail to see things as they are and instead see them as we are. Our beliefs about our identities shaping how we form associations and view the world around us. However, the challenges we experience throughout life often leave an indelible mark, forever filtering our view in ways both better and sometimes worse. You see, life is like a picture and how we frame it can significantly influence how we perceive it. Therefore, cognitive appraisal is an essential life skill, enabling us to beneficially influence the perspectives we form. Cognitive appraisals help us regulate emotions by reframing our thoughts, which aids in navigating stress and adversity. This process fosters resilience and adaptability, enabling us to respond more effectively to challenges and bounce back from setbacks. So just how do we develop this amazing life-altering skill? Our guest Khalid Whitehour is here today to tell you how he's taken the challenges and adversity of childhood abandonment and abuse and turned them into the fuel needed to create an empowering outlook on life.

Khaled Weidauer: Hi Colleen. How are you? I am fine.

SPEAKER_02: Thank you. I'm having a good day. I don't know what time you have in the United States, but fantastic day here so far.

Jeffrey Besecker: It's very hot.

SPEAKER_02: You have no idea how hot it is here. You know, it was raining, but now it's summer. But how is your day so far?

Jeffrey Besecker: Fantastic. Just got off a really fun interview, looking at limiting beliefs with a podcast. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to have this opportunity to connect with you and consider how we can create a great educational message for our listeners.

Khaled Weidauer: When someone sees my look, they think,

SPEAKER_02: Surely not from there, but and surely we didn't have this hard life, you know, every time, you know, the hollow effect, right? Yeah. People assume I'm a good person and I have it all because just I look normal.

Jeffrey Besecker: That's interesting. Let's bring that into this conversation. I think that's a great aspect to kind of pick apart. Give me a little bit more insight on your perception of that. This is a fun, interesting opportunity. You know, that's a new one to bring that I know we haven't kind of brought that specific context in. So share.

SPEAKER_02: So I grew up in North Africa. I live in 24 years of my life. I'm 26. I live in 24. That's, that's how much 24 of them in Africa, in the poorest, you know, you know, Tunisia, the country, it's in North Africa. So it's one of the poorest countries in Africa. I mean, which country in Africa is rich to say one of the poorest.

Jeffrey Besecker: Where is that in relationship to Lagos? I'm trying to think contextually here. I've got a friend who has been a missionary for probably, oh gosh, 18 years now in Lagos. His family lives there and they grew up here in the state.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah. I think that's a little bit far from me.

Jeffrey Besecker: Yeah. I think it's like polar opposite at the other end of the continent, but I can frame a little reference based on what their experiences have been and what they've shared with me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: It's not a Islamic state because you know, in North, they're all Arabic Islamic states, which pretty amazing thing to talk about later. So I grew up in a neighborhood which half of it is religious as fuck. And the other half is like the worst things that you can imagine of drugs and hedonistic path. So the environment was like a complex of one person wanting to do both things. You should pay a visit there and see how it would be very polarized, even in its dichotomy.

Jeffrey Besecker: So I can start to form that opinion of value.

Khaled Weidauer: Absolutely. Hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02: So I was five years old, but my mother left me and went, disappeared from my life. And my father went down to a hole that never ends of alcohol and all other stuffs. And of course, as I have heard, his father was also abusive to him. They didn't treat him that well. I heard a lot of bad stories. You know, if you're in a Muslim land and you do something wrong, what happened to you? Some people call it discipline, but I don't know if that's…

Jeffrey Besecker: It can be a very harsh climate from what I gather.

SPEAKER_02: Yes, what he saw in his father and what he has experienced he pretty much tested on me so there is a lot of stories which we can surely discuss later but one of the most famous ones was I wanted to visit my mother because you know I just told you she left and then as a kid you don't understand why your mother will let you and go just disappear and one of my uncle's friends saw me in the door knocking and of course my mother was not there but that's not the story and he went and told my father and then My father, what he did, he didn't say he goes or he explained something. It's just, you know, the story of St. Peter, how they crossed him upside down. I stayed like that for like 12 hours. It was like 5 a.m., 5 p.m., sorry, English. And I stayed there all the night like that as 11 years old. hit i believe i was yeah yeah but i don't know if you can even imagine the situation i could not even begin to completely conceptualize that i don't know yeah i only imagine how horrid that is and a lot of other stuff you know maybe If you ask me if I would like to go back and change something about my life, I would never change anything. the person I became, it has to be like that. I will never change anything. You can't have a sunshine without rain.

Jeffrey Besecker: That's an emotionally mature response too at this point in life. I applaud you for being able to recontextualize that and reframe things.

SPEAKER_02: Well, what other option do you have?

Jeffrey Besecker: You can. Lots. Apparently I see it every day where I see some of the options there again is perspectives. How can we change and adapt those? And that's where ultimately we try to help guide people. Yes. That's that perspective.

SPEAKER_02: But, you know, the only thing you have really control over is your mind. There's an interesting. No, that's true. You cannot control anything else.

Jeffrey Besecker: Let's pick that apart a little bit. Yes, of course. Control, you know, subjective control. Going a little deeper, we can look at the ideas of access control and finite control. Access control lines more with what we're consciously aware of, finite control being the unconscious part and the ability ultimately lies in the value of what can we access or retrieve from our experience and how can we influence that. Finite control when it becomes maladaptive is that idea that we think or believe that every area of that interaction is within our ability to directly engage or directly cause the outcome. Start to blur that context. We have the ability to access the conscious part. Access control, just simply meaning like a controller button that operates something. Light switch. This is how I always like to illustrate it whenever we're trying to contextualize it. I can influence that light coming on. Now what will happen is, I just found this out a couple of weeks ago, we had a massive tornado come through here and shut our electric down for a week, tore up power lines. I could no longer control in the infinite sense that that light come on because it was beyond my control to influence that electric to the larger degree that I could wish it all I wanted. I could desire it all I wanted, but I push that button and no response because force is beyond me. So that's access control is that ability to influence the button. Unconscious becoming finite control where our central nervous processes like our fight and flight response. You mentioned fight and flight a little bit in conversation. It's largely automatic. Our body overrides most of our inputs, most of our sensations to keep us alive, basically, to protect us, to defend what we feel is an existential threat or what we feel is an emotional response. You know, I like to contextualize that because especially it's where our audience goes because we're trying to find that nuance.

SPEAKER_02: So as a member of your group told me, your words are out of my league because they are more scientific and I am more life experienced.

Jeffrey Besecker: That's where we're trying to bridge the gap. Let me give you a little reference here. Our audience. specifically is focused on change leaders within that coaching practice community, academics, you know, we have a lot of neuroscientists, we have a lot of psychologists and what we're doing. Yeah, you've done a lot of research and I see infinite value in where your perspective because it does help bridge that gap of nuance sometimes where it's easier to contextualize sometimes and easier to kind of bring it down to that elemental aspect again to kind of ground us back into that, okay, here's how the regular experience is. Again, trying to find that gap of bridging to those communities. So if there's a gap sometimes in speaking, that's because that community is very rooted in that research. The wonderful thing is when we can meet guests like you who are able to kind of sidestep the two, inform that bridge between those gaps. You know, we can learn so much from that because you start to grasp the utilization of these bigger concepts. And that's ultimately where the core practice comes out. The core ability to look at the habits, the core areas where the actual change happens is in that gap. It's not in knowing all the information. Oh, it's not in the lack of information. It's right in that middle where the two meet. We're trying to grow and adapt that even in our program.

SPEAKER_02: Thank you. and what I find very interesting is both paths, both of those paths will lead to the same conclusion, I believe. If you live this path of me or you live this path of you, they will both come to the same result, I believe. When I say I believe, I really believe that. And whether you study it or you live it yourself, you will find it You will come to the same conclusion. And about your previous question, what do you mean you don't have control over? As I said, I think you have only control over your mind. Nothing else.

Jeffrey Besecker: I'm going to go a little deeper on the context here. Implicit memory inherently records things beyond your conscious access in the mind specifically, particularly going to the insular cortex and access memory. We have two different types, basically of category memory, explicit, that that we can remember and recall, and then implicit, which typically requires an outside stimulus or source of influence to recall. Yeah, an influence. Things like procedures, you know, driving. As we go back to procedures, you might drive down the road and first and foremost, you start to record that automatic response. You know, you develop the habituated response of the action. Now also, there's procedural memory there where as you're driving down that road or walking down the street, There are conscious things that you're aware of noticing. You know, I have access to it. I see the man on the corner and he's doing a certain behavior or action or he's acting in a certain way. But there might also be, you know, the little girl over here that you completely don't notice. So, you know, I ask you, well, what was on your walk today? Oh, I saw this old man on the corner. You know, so, oh, I saw this little girl, but well, you didn't record that because you didn't have a conscious connection with it. So access control there being that fine line between access control is what you notice with the old man. Yes. Just kind of the man. And I'm kind of subjectively building this character. But then there's a little girl over here that's in your finite control that you might have heard her. She might have giggled, you know, so you're recording a perception of emotion. But you're unable to record it and say, oh, I remember that little girl. It's in your implicit memory. Now, if we go back in through a series of triggers or replaying that, sometimes we are able to trigger that reconnection. If I go back and ask a series of questions of what was going on, you know, when the old man, oh, I noticed that he was smiling and then, oh, and by the way, then, you know, because you recognized he was smiling, you also heard with the happy emotion in the little girl. Oh, and there was another person. So you start to then bring that into your access control, and it blurs that line. It's not ultimately beyond our ability to access, but there's that line. So it's just simply differentiating that context. We can influence the ability to recall it, yet we don't consciously, specifically have that direct idea of control. Had you not been reinforced and re-triggered to experience that emotion, it might have went right beyond your awareness. And the emotional connection is the biggest part of that equation, is the fascinating part to look at.

SPEAKER_02: So, I believe it has to be in a specific scenario to say, you can actually, one time, like you said, hear the girl and one time you will not hear the man you just created. But one thing I would like to tell you, I self-reflect to myself every day and I will swear that I take one hour of my day to really make a place for the girl you are talking about. I try to not miss anything I did. what have gone wrong, why I was a little bit lazy, why I was a little bit hardworking. I analyze myself in a high level, which of course comes with my ego development and why I do that to prove that I am the man I am doing. So I don't know if this applies to me, what you said. because I really try to remember everything that happens to me on the day and reflect on it. Why I did that? Why I did this? That I stay with sight with myself and you said earlier about my father's situation. I took the time to study why he did that and took the time to know well if I will be sad about it What benefit will that give me if I will just be sad about it? Or I can use it as a motivation, is it not my favorite word? As a fuel to become the person that is not my father. You know the interesting study of the two people, the two brothers, I believe they are twins, and they have both an alcoholic father. One of them became also alcoholic, I'm sure not sorry. And he said, well, I'm a son of an alcoholic, what do you expect? and the other one said well I'm a son of an alcoholic so I didn't want to become like my father which make it more difficult to discuss because someone said it's genetics

Jeffrey Besecker: someone said it is genetics and your environment and being human is inherently complicated and very often our limiting beliefs fall in those cracks where we distort that or we discount something or we neglect something or avoid it and more importantly what we avoid you know that's where a lot of that unconscious subconscious chain comes in is yeah the emotional trigger leads us to avoid it because we're protecting and defending

SPEAKER_02: That's what I wanted to tell you about the point you may have made. Maybe the old man have done something you like and you have so maybe he's playing football and you're a football fan and maybe the girl is doing something that triggers an emotional in your past that is bad for you. Maybe she's doing I don't know. She's hurting herself. I hope not. You, in the past, you have hurt yourself so many times. So maybe your body will create a coping mechanism to protect you. Maybe that's why he will make a line, as you said. I believe our brain is aware of everything, but again, like you said, absolutely perfect. He will only see the good side that you want to memorize and he will try his best to delete the other side. I believe it could be a coping mechanism.

Jeffrey Besecker: In many regards and in many perspectives, and I'll frame it that way, it's easily relatable to see it as a coping mechanism in various aspects.

SPEAKER_02: Do you have an experience like this?

Jeffrey Besecker: Yeah, let me show you a coping mechanism. Let me search because what we do then is we start to block it out because we feel we've moved beyond it. Here's a good example of coping mechanism that shows up regular. So I had an interaction last week with a guest and there was a conflict in our conversation in the idea that, you know, we started to have a difference in opinion. But that's okay. She started to become defensive. You know, she shut down first. It was, I'm firing back. No, that's not true. Okay. So here's data and here's a perspective. And so she kind of ran from that protected and then started to find a way to justify what she thought. off, started to defend it. And then eventually, OK, well, let's question it this way. I just tried to find a way to reframe like you did in that circumstance. Let's look at it from another angle. Let me ask you a question. And rather than come back and say, all right, this is what you should do. This is right. And this is how it is. I said, you tell me how you see it. And I want to respond with that. So here's a question X, Y, Z. And then the questioning itself. triggered that emotional response of protectivism, I could have very easily recognized because I was starting to be defensive. I was starting to want to go on that approach. I wanted to prove I was right. So I had to catch my own biases in it and say, okay, now from an ego perspective, my filter is saying, prove you're right. Rather than proving I was right, I stepped back and said, tell me more about what you think and feel. From your perspective, how have you experienced it? So then eventually, even that aspect of stepping back and trying to become regulated and neutral, I had to recognize where those aspects come into play. I could feel my cortisol level, the response. I couldn't tell it was actually the cortisol, but through the understanding of what the outcome is, I could feel that kind of elevated, you know, my blood pressure goes up. Not everyone can do this what you have done.

SPEAKER_02: Most people are ignorant from where the feeling of that comes. Most people believe things that they don't even know where they come the idea from and they will defend it.

Jeffrey Besecker: It's a trait and a skill. The easiest way, it's a trait, a skill, and a tool. It's an asset you develop and adapt to. And even within it, you fluctuate. If I were attacked in the right manner, I know that there are conscious triggers and unconscious triggers, both, that would come up and put me automatically, 100%. And I have an increased ability to adapt and recognize it now. But there are certain situations that I still, boom, it comes up. And it's that ingrained.

SPEAKER_02: That aligns with what I said. You have control over your mind.

Jeffrey Besecker: You have influence. I'm going to have to stay there where I'm at on that. Okay. Yeah. Control in the sense that it's access and finite. Can we agree on that? Again? Control in the sense that it's access and it's finite. I'm going to negotiate with you here. Yes. I'm doing the power of influence and suggestion now. Okay. We'll agree to disagree on that and to some extent.

SPEAKER_02: Yes, of course. You know,

Jeffrey Besecker: we cannot both be copies of each other then we are not individuals anymore but that's interesting why do we resist that so much from your perspective why do we have to inherently be so unique and might that itself be a coping mechanism at times

SPEAKER_02: Of course, and I believe, why would someone support a football team that doesn't even know their name? Why they will go and pay money and have a t-shirt and they will go together? Why we was always a tribe's animals, I will say.

Jeffrey Besecker: There's certain social structures from one aspect. For instance, let's find one relevant cause here. Thinking in terms of relativism. Because it's valuable to identify that person first and foremost, because it allows us to form that perception at its core. Just like that stop sign. And if we're driving down the road, we notice that stop sign. It forms a concrete value that we can share. So if we want to go to the game and both enjoy this player, if we have a communication about that, it's difficult to communicate and interact because you just simply, if you said that player, then there's no way to form a focused awareness of which player. So we're looking at a bigger context. That's how I go with things. I tend to go up here and then swoop down. I disrupted your flow here. You can see how things play out in my world.

SPEAKER_02: You said why we defend our ideas so heavily, right? Yeah. Because our ideas is our identity.

Jeffrey Besecker: Do they have to be? If you want to do now, say, OK, can I hold you here a minute? Yes. So let's hold that idea. Our ideas are our identity now. And that's what we're certain is correct. Would you agree on that concept where you're at right now? Not always, because… Good, you got a not always. So referring that back now to what you just relayed about the stories, the narratives and the subconscious scripts, or those what's recorded and what's not, the part that's not recorded becomes a subconscious narrative or script. It becomes that part of the outcome that we're unaware of. So you told me the story of the two brothers and where not necessarily the identity matters. So can you see where there's a contrast there? Just simply a contrast, you held one belief about a self, and then over here you held literally two different beliefs about a self, and you're able to consider all aspects from a relative perspective now. Would you agree? You're able to relate to the context here, and then here's two different contexts, so you've got three contexts, and you're just simply filtering and evaluating, assessing, and adapting.

Khaled Weidauer: Yes, I could agree on that, of course.

Jeffrey Besecker: So where I want to go with that, if you're open to hearing something, if you're open to some feedback from me.

Khaled Weidauer: I am always open, that's what I have learned.

SPEAKER_02: Again, that's what I want.

Jeffrey Besecker: I applaud you again. Thank you for offering that space and I'm so grateful to have that opportunity to share this.

SPEAKER_02: As you grow and you become wiser, you know that you know nothing. And of course there is faces and… You know what you know.

Jeffrey Besecker: That's how I like to frame it. You know what you know. Sometimes it's something. Sometimes it might not be anything to the extent we believe it is.

SPEAKER_02: You know, how much times we thought science or physics law was right until someone comes and proves it wrong.

Jeffrey Besecker: That's an interesting point because inherently when we look at science itself, the core value is never rooted on an outcome. The core value is, is there evidence? What's observable? And do we valuably question it once we form an idea? It's adaptability. It's not cemented. So it's interesting how we struggle with the idea of science, but the science aspect of it, the core tenets of science are rooted in change and uncertainty. Therefore, we sometimes resist that because it inherently tells us there's an uncertainty whether we're conscious of it or not. One theory on why we reject science because it does question, and when we're questioned, what do we do sometimes? We're triggered emotionally.

SPEAKER_02: of course and you know you have now gave me i don't want to make this bigger than it is but you can also say we humans hate change and you can say also that our body will do everything to let us burn less calories in a day in many regards because change requires sometimes additional effort change also induces additional stress

Jeffrey Besecker: So if we go to that, from that awareness, change requires additional effort very often, which requires additional energy, which also creates resistance and stress, which also ultimately challenges our energy and how much we have available as a resource to give. That's kind of the elemental approach of it.

Khaled Weidauer: And that's where all it is.

Jeffrey Besecker: Yeah, that goes back to why it goes offline unconscious because if we're consciously always trying to resist that, then sometimes we inherently lead to things that become our own downfall because now we're polarized and centralized in that fear of the outcome. So we don't inherently do anything. Relating that to habituation and habits. That's why a lot of times we go to just that default neural programming. It's outside of the brain largely. The biggest portion of it happens in our central nervous system, in the body, in that interaction between the pituitary gland at the base of our brain, in our gut, and that secretion of either dopamine, cortisol, serotonin, all of those emotional chemistry. You know, all those emotional hormones. So that was bad. And what do they do? They stimulate action. Most of them regard some form of action or energetic exchange. Yes. And to get very deep on that, specifically triggering at the base of our brain before it even enters the brain or not. There's a gate there called an afferent or efferent neuron. And essentially what it is is a gated switch. So when we feel that internal neural system response of protectivism, where that survival instinct comes in, that survival pulse, it shuts that gate down and it doesn't access our brain or it shifts it to the unconscious brain. So when we're emotionally regulated, the afferent response opens up and in comes the input of the emotion, in comes the input of the body, and it moves us into a more open, adaptive response throughout our brain. Specifically, it allows the brain to go into reasoning mode in the frontal cortex. We're able then to form some of those opinions and values based on the values alone and making logical, reasoned responses. Interesting. When that switch shuts down, it doesn't necessarily shut off the brain. It moves it into different areas. We go into that emotional fight or flight mode and it goes largely to the amygdala and the insular cortex, which they just act. They don't think, they don't bring in logic and reason. It's just taking action. That's why we have that outburst and yell at somebody. It's why we might shut down, you know, when we're, I'm now in conflict and I'm going back to this program mode of protection. So I shut down just like the conversation with the individual. She now felt threatened in some regard from that conflict, that relationship, that interaction. And rather than and I tried to step back and I let her calm for a moment. Let's take a deep breath, you know, kind of guided her through, tried to help regulate. Let's look for co-regulation, not telling her just calm down. That won't do it because they automatically put you in that way. So let's take a moment. I'm going to take a deep breath. Let's take a deep breath. You're suggesting then a different outcome. Here is an idea. Here is healthy, vulnerable, supportive feedback. So shifts us around. And then what happens is that nervous system kind of finds its calm. We regulate, you know, all of the system regulates and then afferent neurons take action. It opens up and it starts to bring in some of those other areas. We have access control because now we have access to that different information. We have access to the outcomes. We have that adaptive range to access different perspectives and potentials. Yes, I will.

SPEAKER_02: I would say that you can, if you do what you hate to do, then I believe your dopamine receptors will change the way they work.

Jeffrey Besecker: So let's play that through. Yes. Is it always beneficial to do something you hate to do? Give me one thing you absolutely, the last thing that it's kicking and dragging to do in your perspective. Everything I do. Is there one pain point that just literally, if anything you could ever do either allows you to avoid it, run from it, or defend against it?

SPEAKER_02: I will never run or defend against it. That's the point. But to your question, what law, everything I do every day, everything.

Jeffrey Besecker: So let's go back. And had we went through our conversation, and at some point when we were talking about the idea or concept of control, if I would have come back, here's an instance. It might be a pain point to consider. And should somebody have approached you, whether it be me or anybody else and said, no, that's absolutely wrong. You have no control of your brain. If I would just said no control. That's OK. Would you accept that or would you shut down? Would you would you look at a new habit to adapt or would that have been a pain point and you struggled against it?

SPEAKER_02: No, I will not have it as a… First of all… And you didn't.

Jeffrey Besecker: You might have had a little resistance from my perspective, my feedback.

SPEAKER_02: First of all, that's important. I will look at the person who told me this. I will see how their life is going. I will see how… Are they in great shape? Are they good communicators? I will look how they live, and if that's the kind of life I would like to have, that's my dream life, then of course I will believe. You cannot just, again, this is another discussion, but you cannot just be a follower. You're talking about unfluencing. You know, you cannot just take someone else's perspective and say, oh, that's okay, I will. He told me I have no control over my brain, so that's true. And to live like this, that's my dream life. Surely, I will believe that.

Jeffrey Besecker: So in the process of differentiating that, if I can ask you one question here before we move on, I'm kind of interjecting here. I'm steamrolled now. That's a defensive mechanism. I didn't want to lose this idea that I'm protecting against it. If you are identifying one kind of central aspect or skill that empowers your ability to do that, to simply say, okay, here's a perspective or here is someone else's view or opinion on it. What would you identify as one? And it doesn't have to be the skill or the right skill or the only skill. If you could only identify one, what would that skill be to develop that trade or that habit?

SPEAKER_02: Doing the shit you hate to do. And regardless of how you feel, if it have to be one word, it's discipline. I don't want to use the terms that your audience don't like to hear.

Jeffrey Besecker: No, our audience is open. We want to hear where your perspective is. So I'm going to reinforce that today. I've overemphasized that and it brings out my attention for feedback.

SPEAKER_02: because nobody gives a fuck if you are tired or sad that day if nobody will come to you and give you a good body or give you good communication skills or give you the or give you the good look you are looking for or give you the girl you are dreaming of having or give you the job you would like to have or any nobody not even your mother from personal experience and your father will give you anything you would like everything i have i'm not the most successful person but Everything I have accomplished I did absolutely because I wanted and I did something to have it.

Jeffrey Besecker: So first of all, thank you for vulnerably sharing that because hauling that into your awareness, I value what you do in this life intrinsically for who and what you are. I inherently believe in you. I inherently respect what you bring to this world and share with everyone. So thank you. I hope positive, positive energy. From my perspective, at least one person is here for you today. I admit I am here for you today and I value that. Does that shift your perspective and reframe it again?

SPEAKER_02: No, it is good to know that, you know, I am married and I have also kids. You know, I have to tell you a lot of stuff, but we didn't came even close to that. You know, it is good that I know that my wife can take care of me when I'm sick. But you know, before this, before I even come to the idea that my wife will take care of me, I know that I will take care of myself.

Jeffrey Besecker: So let's look at that idea of discipline. Are you open to that? Of course. So let's go back now, take that idea of discipline. Let's sit with discipline, empowering through something and not having a space where you or anyone else, you feel like you or anyone else is open to accept the fact that I'm just here and I'm valued. Now let's take that idea of discipline, relate that back to your past and how you associate that idea. Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02: So as I was 12, I believe I was addicted to a lot of stuff. I was even smoking. Yeah, that's bad. That's bad. you know, you only have a bad friends. You end up, you know, if you hang out with people who smoke, you'll end up smoking. That's it. There is no way.

Khaled Weidauer: There is a definite aspect of influencer. I would agree on that. Of course.

SPEAKER_02: And I was 12. I was working in, as I told you, in constructions and I was same time studying. But, you know, as I told you, I was gaming all the night, gaming, gaming, gaming and smoking and doing drugs, you know, the teenager life basically.

Jeffrey Besecker: So looking back on those experiences, can you relate to where you were in those experiences and have any perspective on why you might have engaged in those experiences then? You know, why you might have taken those activities?

SPEAKER_02: I was looking for fun. I was looking for fun. That's why everyone goes to the hedonistic path. You know, our dopamine receptors come give me this easy, easy joy.

Jeffrey Besecker: So it's kind of displacement. You're taking one value over here and you want to avoid it or resist it. And you're just shifting it. And it's not that that was a judgmental value. It's just there's a logic to it. It's logical to have something that is discomforting and find a healthy outlet. So balancing the two becomes essential.

SPEAKER_02: That's why everyone is looking for the easy, joyful moment that, you know, let me do this.

Jeffrey Besecker: We tend to go to that, but there's a certain value, right? Is there not a certain value or benefit in a quick response that does bring a healthy outcome?

SPEAKER_02: What is the healthy outcome?

Jeffrey Besecker: There again, it becomes constructive and it becomes relevant, right? It's just another view and we're just reframing the perspective again. If I can suggest again, go back and reconnect with that idea of discipline. Compare that now with where you're taking your values and beliefs to say, but if I don't do X, Y, and Z, but if I'm not constant in my habits and behavior, it's all about discipline. Yes. What does that bring up when you compare that to your past experience?

SPEAKER_02: So the kind of life I was living is my nightmare to become that person again. So that's where discipline came. I created it and made me the person I would like to be. You know, there is this longing of the moment I said, is this really the person I would like to be? And through doing the things, it's not the one moment. Yeah. very long progress to become someone else. And my motive is when I look in the mirror, I say, I'm really proud of myself. I'm not lying. I'm not pretending to be this person. I'm really this guy who I say I am. And going back again, how discipline will affect your life. I have a lot of work to do. As I said, I was working, I never go, and I have no money, and I sleep in my grandmother's house because, you know, my parents.

Khaled Weidauer: Sorry, I have a lot of languages in my head.

Jeffrey Besecker: That's cool. That's cool. And there's a lot of families in that head that just regard how you associate who and what you believe yourself to be. Internal family systems, you know, it's that idea of, you know, a little bit ago, you said pretending to be something. Now, in essence, aren't we all either pretending or acting upon a certain action? And that just becomes a matter of framing.

SPEAKER_02: You mean if you are pretending that that's the truth?

Jeffrey Besecker: There's a slippery line there. Now, let's look at the idea of belief and starting to reinforce beliefs. Don't you have to pretend a little bit, to a certain degree, that I believe that even though I might not have this skill, I have to at least pretend to the degree that if I don't believe I can develop this skill of doing the new habit. So it's that line of belief based on the projected aspect that although I can't do it now, if I just said, yes, I can't do it now and I fully believe that I never will do it, then I shut down. Reframe it. Sit with that.

Khaled Weidauer: There is nothing. And it's just perspectives, right?

SPEAKER_02: There is nothing fake about belief, but the paradox is

Jeffrey Besecker: There's nothing really fake about disbelief. Would you agree on that in some regard? Can you explain? So, if you are insecure, let's say I'm insecure, I feel threatened, consciously or unconsciously. Now, let's step out of self. Can we step out of self here and frame it to if it's an external experience? so say bobby is insecure whoever bobby is or um akil let's just pick random names here akil akil the rapper i'm projecting that on there that's popping up for some reason so akil is insecure and he doesn't have that belief in the ability the ability But then now he questions the ability. So I am of the opinion or belief that I will never perform this task. I can't reframe it like you have illustrated. And so now what happens? Well, because I can't perform the task, I now believe I am unworthy of it and I don't have the value. So the belief becomes what? Projected, right? Are we somewhat pretending that we can't?

SPEAKER_02: That's where, again, why would you do that?

Jeffrey Besecker: Good question. Why? Why do we do that usually?

SPEAKER_02: That's because we are intrinsically lazy. To avoid?

Khaled Weidauer: That's it.

Jeffrey Besecker: To defend? or suppress because why we feel challenged and there's an emotional response that makes us feel recalcitrant, uncomfortable emotions we want to avoid. Yes. And again, that's what you have to agree. Or could you could you at least consider that perspective that somehow there's an element of pretending there in what makes one element more true or false?

Khaled Weidauer: Yes, of course.

Jeffrey Besecker: See where I'm going. I'm going to take it again and reframe it and pick it apart.

SPEAKER_02: Yes, but what what is better for you to pretend you are nothing or you to pretend you are something and really it's subjective.

Jeffrey Besecker: What's the circumstance?

Khaled Weidauer: Bring me a circumstance. Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_02: I can do that.

Jeffrey Besecker: That's where I'm going to go with it. Let's throw it back to my processes. Yes. Circumstance at me.

SPEAKER_02: I was pretending to be a gaming addict to be. Yeah. a smoker, to be fed, I was 190 years old.

Jeffrey Besecker: By and large, yeah. We essentially pretend to be the opposite, too. You know, we're just building what? A concept, right? Yes. You're forming a value and opinion and building a construct, a self-construct. It's just the framework and values you use.

SPEAKER_02: And I thought that's the life I wanted. Again, I was pretending that that's the life I wanted. You have, and it was not good. You know, I was really fed. I have no communication skills. I, you know, this English I am speaking and the German and the French and all the languages I have.

Jeffrey Besecker: I give you total kudos for being at least bilingual, multilingual, because I blow my own mind trying to figure out the English language still. And there's beliefs and values tied to that. Inherently, I don't take the action so it becomes self-limiting in some regards. Am I okay with that? Am I okay with pretending that I don't need it? Yeah, because I'm not triggered by it. Yeah, I find the value in it. It's all subjective in that regard. Do I beat myself up over it? Maybe.

SPEAKER_02: it's still the situation why would you learn a native i learned german because i live in switzerland i learned german in a in five months five months because i have to because i live here i have to i learned i learned french because i have i studied as i thought i i did half year of college, something else we will talk about.

Jeffrey Besecker: So I've been sitting on an observation here. If you're open again, get them questions. I'm always open. So earlier on in our conversation, this is not to try to find a fault mission with you, although it is trying to find a fault mission with you, and I'm not going to pretend it's not. It's not trying to be hurtful, it's trying to be helpful.

Khaled Weidauer: Or you are pretending to pretend.

Jeffrey Besecker: Let's frame the pretend here. Let's frame the perspective. So early on you said motivation, although I see it more as I can't even remember the context because I was hanging on to what was salient here to me. Motivation. So in this regard, then that becomes a motivational factor. That becomes a thing that influences why you reframe the perspective, why you take the action.

Khaled Weidauer: So of course, there has to be one.

Jeffrey Besecker: All of those factors are interactive. You know, they're not single. What we do, what do we do? Well, are you motivated or not? Well, that depends on what part we're focusing on and pretending to matter. that's what discipline it might be avoiding that emotion it might be achieving the goal They're all factors. We're constantly motivated towards something, whether it's to avoid, whether it's to execute, whether it's to do nothing at all. There are factors that are elemental that influence that. We're not always aware of them, just like those unconscious memories. That's also a motivational factor. There's a part of your memory that says there's a reason to remember this little girl back here. Because when you hear her giggle, the motivation is form a value based on that emotion. Now, when you look at the old man, if the old man would turn around and said, fuck you, what are you looking at? There was a motivation then to discern the two and say, but he was just smiling and I looked at him and now he's become defensive. It just brings your attention to the interaction. So the motivational factor is to just frame and assess those values, reframe those values, adapt and conform. Sometimes we're conforming to the value, which also bumps into that idea of social conformity, where we're also adapting and conforming to their shared beliefs. That's that fine line of healthy, unhealthy, adaptive, maladaptive, beneficial, unbeneficial, non-adverse. Adverse being the end of the spectrum where it does cause an effect we don't desire. They're all factors of motivation. Does that allow you to reframe the idea of motivation now?

SPEAKER_02: I don't. You know, everyone wants something, right? But if you want something, you will not be motivated all the time. And that's again, I don't even think motivation is really that important because we all want something.

Khaled Weidauer: And are you always aware of everything you want?

SPEAKER_02: Yes, everyone is. But we are just too lazy to do the every man knows

Jeffrey Besecker: I'm not. I'll be honest. I won't pretend to be. There are times where those factors come up and until somebody's pointed it out to me, I might not recognize what might have been a potential. And just simply being able to acknowledge how it might have surfaced as a potential brings you back in line with that conscious connection. I might not have been noticing how I influenced that conversation with the individual I had to conflict earlier.

Khaled Weidauer: Yes.

Jeffrey Besecker: And that's why I had to be responsive to her feedback, her motivational factor of now that I recognize her emotional response to it, now that I recognize her actions, that was feedback I wasn't aware of until I allowed myself to be influenced externally by the motivation. It wasn't in my conscious control until luckily when you develop some of those skills, as we develop some of those skills and traits, some of those adaptive habits and traits, we then can catch the instances where we've disconnected. But that's a skill you have to have if you are a person with I will not say full mind control because that's something We're going back to those access See how it starts and become a circle and see how when you catch yourself now in that circle You start to resist a little, right? That's those emotional interactions it's measuring from the past. And you're just comparing. It's all right to compare. It's all right to even be apprehensive and defensive about because you're not judging the value of the emotion.

SPEAKER_02: Isn't that a natural thing to do? Defense?

Jeffrey Besecker: Yeah, it's natural to defend and protect your survival, you know, very naturally, because if you don't, what do you do? Well, let's fucking die. Or there's challenge, or I'm stressed and that's natural to at least have the conscious awareness and fear of it. Fear itself is not an inherently negative emotion because it takes a healthy fear to say, I can understand and assess the risk in this. Risk aversion is when we go maladaptive and now all risk. I'm shutting down. I'm, you know, I freeze up and I don't process. That's actually one of the autonomic ladder steps is that freeze response. Now, what do I do? I shut down and I'm not communicating. Now I'm protecting. Now I'm avoiding. Now I'm suppressing the emotion to see where those things unravel. Yes. It's beneficial to know that, you know, it's beneficial and you just stop and you say, stop first, breathe, recognize, start to process, develop a tool and trait and a habit. And if it gets by, develop the sometimes most vulnerable habit of just saying, I missed it. And that's cool too, because what happens, as you mentioned earlier, opportunities happen again, reframe it, reevaluate, start the step there.

SPEAKER_02: Yes, but I feel most people don't self-reflect. You know, a day goes by and they will take no lesson from it. No lesson, and that's not okay.

Jeffrey Besecker: There's a lot of context in that, and that's where I'll go with it. There's a lot of context in that statement. There is a limit to how much we can introspect, and actually the introspection illusion, where we go into that part that's unconscious, Yes, again, becomes we can reflect all we want. But until we meet that access control point, the trigger that flips the switch and lets us in the door, we don't control it. And it's beyond our ability to self-reflect. Now, again, if somebody has the ability to compassionately, empathetically point out, let's consider that perspective. Yes. That's the fact that you are shutting down. And I'm here to help you and support you. I'm here to help you grow. How can we move through that point and how can I assist you or are you cool with taking that? Either way I'm just here to say you're awesome and I encourage you for your best.

SPEAKER_02: So my argument for that would be no one will care as much as they care about you. Would you agree on that?

Jeffrey Besecker: To a degree, to a degree again, and there again is the moment I say I'm certain to the degree becomes a biased perspective. Now let's take an instance here and I'm going to illustrate this. So say you've got Bobby again. Bobby is emotionally dysregulated. Bobby has went through a lot of traumas, much like your experience. Bobby has shut down to the world and Bobby is to the point now where he doesn't give a fuck whether he's in this world. who might have a higher degree of caring in that circumstance. If Bobby doesn't care if he's here yet, he has a valued support system, whoever that is. Say, for instance, I contact Bobby said, Bobby, I know things have went to shit for you. That must be hard. I hold that space. I can even relate to a degree how much hard I've felt, but I can't even begin to contemplate your heart because there's differences. but I care to you to the degree that I feel, without voicing it, you're ready to end it now, but I'm ready to help you find the happiness on it. I'm helping you reframe it. I care enough that I'm there. So who cares more in that equation from that perspective?

SPEAKER_02: But what happens when this person don't show up?

Jeffrey Besecker: There again, there's always variances and you're willing to consider those. And that's fantastic adaptability skills, because now you're not only what happens with that a lot of times is we take that and we say, OK, but only positive thoughts. And if we ignore that adverse what we label negative, that maladaptive and just ignore it. we've automatically dismissed that vote. Can we helpfully frame that? What if nobody shows up? Then, yes. Where do we go? How deep do you rely upon your self-resources, or do you slip over that line? That's your responsibility, in my perspective.

SPEAKER_02: Yes. Again, what if this person doesn't show up, right? Then you are… This is, of course, my life experience taught me that I am alone.

Jeffrey Besecker: Tell me about that. Tell me your experience of it. I totally rely on mine.

SPEAKER_02: Yes. If I was in a happy family, father, mother, sister, father gave me money. I went to school alone. I didn't work. I didn't burn 45 degrees Celsius sun. in Africa, then I would say if I have a problem, I will call this person because I have lived in a way that I know there is someone for me. But in my personal experience, I have lived and I have come to the conclusion that no one is there for me, was there for me. Now, I have a wife and kids, but not to the extent that they have to help me. That's why, because they are there. They are there because I love them, and I would like to bring value. By bringing value to them, by making sure they have food, and make sure they're healthy, happy, I will feel, again, good about my… I'm not a philanthropist. I don't do anything for people. We are all, to some extent, selfish.

Jeffrey Besecker: Yeah, there's some truth in that. To a degree we have to be. To a degree we have to be, at least consider it, back to that idea of self-preservation or survive. If you're not at least considering that ability to survive, then you're not active and you die. And you cannot help others.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah. If you cannot take care of yourself, how do you expect to help the people you love? If you are fucked, how can you help other people?

Jeffrey Besecker: So if you are incapacitated and you can't take care of yourself, does that also bring in a new set of circumstances to reframe? Say you have an illness or an injury accident that takes you out of that capacity to care for yourself. Say you wake up tomorrow and you fall off a ladder. Heaven forbid someone. I'm not even going to frame it because I don't want to project it on you. Say someone falls off a ladder and, you know, they… I had a scare a couple years ago where I fractured four vertebrae. Had I landed just right, I might not have gotten up on my own accord and walked again. Very close to that line, and it's very unsettling where you put yourself in check and realize that things can change beyond your control that quick. Now, there was a lot of influence that I could have made better decisions and exercised different choices, not put myself in that position, but I did because it was a conscious choice to put me in the positions that caused those interactions and my own decision alone.

SPEAKER_02: That's exactly. Sorry, I'll go back again to this because I love it.

Jeffrey Besecker: Nobody put me on the bike and patted me on the back and said, good luck. Actually, I said the opposite. My wife said, you go out there and be careful. And I ignored that feedback. Had I listened to that feedback, I might have made different choices, had different influences, had different motivations.

SPEAKER_02: Of course. And again, sorry to go back again.

Khaled Weidauer: That's why I said you have great. Sometimes we got to go back to go forward. Always.

SPEAKER_02: That's it. It's another discussion, but people don't even know where their feelings come from. They have this person, but they don't even know why, or they hate this thing, but they have the trauma. Like my experience, if you say my abusive father, all the bad stuff he has done to me,

Jeffrey Besecker: i can say all fathers are bad and they will have i will even be a one right but hopefully i'm not now i'm going to relate to that and i know let me make a statement here if i can't i'm interrupting so we're all essentially still figuring out exactly where and how our feelings come from and how they interact

SPEAKER_02: Yes, and most people don't do that. They don't know from where it comes. So that's why they can't hear your perspective. That's why they cannot control it. And once you control it, you can turn it into fuel. And then you have all the fuel you need to become the person you are pretending that you would like to be.

Jeffrey Besecker: So let's go back again. I'm going to go back and let's take two steps back to go forward again. So back to where those emotions come from. Yes. Sharing our conversation today, where do part of those emotions now come from, from this perhaps new opportunity of perspective?

SPEAKER_02: Yes, my insecurities

Jeffrey Besecker: Let's let's go deeper. Let's go deeper than your insecurities. Where do they actually come from in the body? Yes. Specifically in the body, in the body, specifically outside of the mind, because there's an interaction there. I want to point out. So the autonomic ladder from a certain perspective, whether it be one that I'm forming or we share with other individuals, central nervous system. That body connection, the autonomic ladder connection between the pituitary and the adrenal. Body, this is body too, you know, it's part of the same unit. It's kind of contorted to say it's not the body. Okay, so the head is now not a part of that concept of who and what I believe to be me. So back to this area though. Autonomic ladder. What did we discuss from that perspective that you can recall about those effort and effort neurons that switch in that gut response? Parts of that are unconscious, right? Yes, it is. So parts of that in that regard are beyond our ability to influence and control to some degree. Would you not at least to see where I'm going? If we start to then form those assessments and go to those quick judgments, just like me getting off that bike and falling off. I can use that now as fuel or motivation for a new perspective because, okay, had I just, you know, I can't go back and beat myself up over it. I can't. What good does that do? You know, so let's, let's stop there. And even when I go back, can I now go back? And even though I beat myself up over it and say, that was stupid. Am I regulated enough to take that was stupid and make fuel or motivation out of that that does still propel me forward? Sometimes we distinct that line and blur it that inherently every time if you're able to emotionally regulate, I'm of the view and opinion that you can go back and realize that there was a certain degree or relative aspect of stupidity, lack of cognitive thought, lack of judgment, and not feel inherently triggered or emotionally devalued by that. And there's a value in that for me. And that's my perspective and how I adapt that framework. I can now go back and now that I don't inherently have a value system that says, well, anytime that there's something that triggers that lack or that insecurity or that sense of stupid or that sense of just devaluing myself, that's not the core framework. Now, the core framework is that we're adaptive. Just like you've developed an adaptive framework i can now go back and say well there was inherently a value that wasn't the best choice there was a certain degree or lack of awareness or understanding which can be equated to relating to a certain element of stupid. I can take it that deep now with the tools and say. But I'm still not triggered and I still don't go back now and fall in that value range of adaptability, that healthy window of tolerance. I can now tolerate those emotions because you develop that regulation, you develop that skill, you develop those habits and traits. It becomes a new tool that forms the new perspective. Not everybody is there. It's a curve and we start from day one and we learn and sometimes we unlearn. We start to develop before we can even reason it at childhood. Now that's because we're still growing. Ironically, we grow to a certain point internally and then we go external, but then we spend our whole lives trying to go internal again, yet we're going internal here rather than internal back to our source. You know, are we the source of self? This is a big philosophical. Are we the source of self or have we already started to be the source from something outside of itself? And are we a self before that? Or is that a construct that we start building once we come out of that birth canal? That's a fun one to just consider and frame. I'm going to leave it there and play with that later.

Khaled Weidauer: Why? It can't be both.

Jeffrey Besecker: It can from a certain perspective, right? It can be both.

SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to, because what you have, leave it. from the beginning, from their birth.

Khaled Weidauer: Yeah.

Jeffrey Besecker: Yeah. Where is the actual beginning is where we can start that. Where is the actual beginning? And was there even an end to begin from? What is source? That's one of the big things I think still is humanity. We wrestle with even of itself. Why do we need a source? That's a good one. Why do we need to establish that there's a source of something? We're looking for certainty, right? Yes, because that's which becomes somewhat of an insecure response. which tries to control it, which tries to adapt it, which sometimes resist it, which sometimes defends against it. That's going very maybe broad philosophically.

SPEAKER_02: No, but that's okay. You know, our human brain cannot understand something without the beginning or an end.

Jeffrey Besecker: that's why we cannot can we challenge and reframe that idea itself that the human brain can't what do we start to do we pretend that it can't right we're going back to the pretend model we're pretending that it can't so then we've just created our own limitation in belief because we're pretending but if you can do this to improve your life and that's okay again it comes again you can pretend to be an addict and be an addict

SPEAKER_02: and that will not help anyone and that will not help your life. Or pretend that you would like to be this person that is not addict and they're in good shape and can talk and take care of his body and his look and take care of other people that he loves. You can pretend to be that person and prove it and become this person.

Jeffrey Besecker: These are all great perspectives to consider.

SPEAKER_02: two people talking to each other is a superpower or there is something unique about exchanging ideas. You know, you hear an idea from a person and you are never the same again. And you say, you know, you hear a line from a movie and you hear a song, a lyric from a song or you hear someone saying something and it triggers you and that will be the moment that you say, ah, this makes sense to me. Maybe what I was believing is wrong and maybe this makes sense. Maybe this is the best thing that I will think that will help me achieve the life I would like to have.

Jeffrey Besecker: Let me share something with you. This is just kind of a vague insight, and I'm going to kind of wrap up on this point to consider why first, you know, this is just kind of rhetorical to sit with. You know, I don't want to dive into it right now, but sit with it and consider why first do we feel we have to take those natural connections and somehow form the idea that they're super or beyond us or that they're an extra special power rather than just our natural traits or natural characteristics of humanity. Sit with that. And we mentioned that earlier in our pre discussions to compare that recently, you know, and this is, this is all speculative, but saw where you got McDonald's in your country now, too. They're everywhere, at least somewhere, right? You can relate to McDonald's fast food chain. Yes. All right. Let me get my point of reference. Make sure I'm referencing that with cultural differences. I can easily observe where I've watched my kids travel to different countries and I can't believe there's a McDonald's. So they have the various size of fries and they always try, you know, there's a sales technique there of upsizing or supersize. This carton of fries, we're selling the value that is inherently more fries. So can you connect with that idea, just as a concept, that, okay, there are three sizes generally, or one smaller, and then we go progressively larger. So I read recently, and I haven't really substantiated, but just as a point of consideration, that inherently you get the same amount of fries in all three packages, and that the actual size of the content package itself is a perceptual illusion. What they do is narrow the box size, which you can compare because they just subtly stack. You take the small, it will go on the bottom of the medium, and then that will conceptually fit on the bottom of the large. So they're narrow. So what they do is the concept is they narrow the package, but increase the length, which gives you a sense of felt depth. You know, suddenly I sense or perceive that this carton is larger and I'm getting more value or more fries. Yet, when you dump out those fries and weigh them, now, I don't know if this was rigged. Again, it's just using kind of that element of trust and filtering and forming perspectives. But from their demonstration, they were able to make it appear that was the same amount of fries in all three containers. And we form that idea of value and belief. That's what we often do in a comparison if we take the value just from that comparison with that idea of supersizing our natural skills and ability. We have to create that belief for various reasons. Sometimes we benefit from it. Sometimes it becomes maybe a limiting belief. That's where I'm now trying to go. I resisted it at first. Okay, why do we need them at all? Well, sometimes it's just pretending or it's finding that different value and reframing it if we do use that perspective. So, I'm trying to move my own resistance and get out of that mode where I'm just only concerned about how many fries are on the plate and looking at the VEX. So might we sometimes do that in a way where we're just perceiving that the box is bigger, but it's kind of the same outcome and it's just changing the value of the framing and finding inherently where it's adaptable.

Khaled Weidauer: Yeah, we are influenced, right? Exactly.

Jeffrey Besecker: That's where I was going with it, hopefully. Well, this has been an awesome conversation. Like I mentioned, Khalid, I've got to run. I'm overstepping my hard stop here. This itself has been a great podcast, how we can change our perspective, become more adaptable and identify some of those limiting patterns of beliefs.

SPEAKER_02: We've already done it. I believe because you know this call was like we that we have a that you make a crown that we both understand.

Jeffrey Besecker: Oh I've learned so much from you today just by being able to hear your perspective and consider new values you know it's been so informative.

SPEAKER_02: I have learned a lot of science from you sir that I never heard.

Jeffrey Besecker: What a powerful journey man I can see it and especially feel it when you play it, especially at the heart level. Thank you. I am so grateful for you sharing that vulnerable space and it is truly an inspiration to watch you go through life and change and grow. I am so honored to be connected with you and call you friend now.

SPEAKER_02: Me too, me too. And you know, I hope we will do a podcast more in depth because I haven't

Jeffrey Besecker: I think we went in depth with this one. I think we're going to be able to expand on it and create additional opportunities. You are full of a wealth of golden nuggets of wisdom and information, my friend. Yeah, I'm still learning. This old dog is learning and growing from you today. So thank you for that. I may be a little salty and gray, but I'm not salty in soul and spirit. Enough to know where a good lesson is a good lesson. Thank you, thank you. I'm so honored to have that gracious opportunity. Thank you. In this episode, we explored the power of cognitive appraisal, a critical life skill for emotional regulation, stress navigation, and resilience building. We discussed how reframing our outlook can transform our perspectives, enabling us to more effectively handle adversity. Key takeaways include practical strategies for implementing cognitive appraisals in daily life, such as identifying recalcitrant thought patterns, practicing gratitude, and focusing on the beneficial aspects of challenging situations. By mastering these techniques, we can enhance our emotional well-being, increasing adaptability, and developing a more resilient mindset. If you found value and meaning in this episode, please share it with a friend or loved one. And as always, we're grateful for you, our valued community of Adaptive Change Leaders. This has been the Light Inside. I'm Jeffrey Besecker.