Jeffrey Besecker This is The Light Inside, I'm Jeffrey Besecker. Action! A new social mantra has risen throughout the ranks of our cultural buzz. Done is better than perfect. The devil makes work of idle hands is a common expression, emphasizing that staying busy will keep us out of trouble. It's just one example of how we consider a lack of action to be inherently wrong. Described as our tendency to favor action over inaction, the action bias can often work to our benefit. However, there are times when we feel compelled to act, even if there's no evidence that it will lead to a better outcome. This surfaces as our tendency to emotionally respond with action as a default, automatic reaction, even without a solid rationale to support it. While that metaphorical pursuit of perfection can often drive us to overanalyze, refinement and careful consideration can often expedite successful outcomes. After all, Rome wasn't built in a day. Somebody decided to slow things down and take the aspects of the project into careful consideration. Although this bias is nothing new, only recently have we begun to study its effects. And yet, there are many things that we still don't fully understand about it. Studies show how short-sightedness and failure to assume healthy risks can lead to a lack of information, neglecting to consider alternatives, and cause us to become emotionally compulsive. Despite these limitations, researchers have discovered evidence of what causes the action bias, and why it often leads us astray during our goal-setting and decision-making. Today, we talk with Executive Leadership Coach Kathy Hadizadeh. explaining how sometimes the urge to wait is often our greatest asset. Tune in to find out how when we return to The Light Inside. We'd like to offer a shout out to our affiliate matching partner, Podmatch.com. Podmatch is the revolutionary podcasting matching system driven by AI. As an industry leader in podcast guesting and hosting, they are a go-to solution for creating meaningful podcast interactions. Podmatch.com makes finding the ideal guest or host effortless. Stop by and visit our affiliate link today at www.thelightinside.us. In a world ruled by busy schedules and a relentless need to achieve, the impulse to seek the peaceful calm, easy resolve, and unhurried spirit can often feel like a monumental task. tasks added to an already busy and awaiting cavalcade of never-ending to-dos. Full of checkmarks and wondering, we often seek our identity, sense of approval, and both inner and outer validation based on this one fact. How much did I get done? Research statistics indicate that stress, anxiety, and burnout have a significant and widespread impact on the average human being, with a substantial portion of the population experiencing stress regularly. In some studies, up to 80% of people report feeling stressed frequently due to factors like work, finances, and personal relationships. And it's widely known how prolonged exposure to stress can lead to physical and mental health issues. The number is growing almost daily when we consider the impact of stress and the ever-increasing rise of anxiety disorders. Statistics underscore the alarming prevalence of burnout in day-to-day interactions, as it becomes increasingly recognized as a significant issue, particularly in the workplace. This leaves us to question, how much more can I realistically place on my plate? And when do I get to say, enough's enough? In this episode, we talk to executive leadership coach Kathy Hedizadeh. Building a career with the leaders of some of the top Fortune 500 companies has shown Kathy a thing or two about how to handle stress, anxiety, and an overloaded plate as busy achievers. Kathy, I'm excited to explore with you today how the action bias can sometimes affect our ability to form healthy risk assessments and make optimal decisions. When it comes to healthy goal setting and personal growth, assessing healthy and unhealthy risks is an essential skill. Yet, our perspectives can often be influenced by subconscious grips that hinder our healthy outcomes. Hello, Jeffrey. Hello, Kathy. How are you? I'm good. How was yourself? Fantastic. It's a wonderful Monday.

Kathy Hadizadeh It's been a very stressful Monday thus far for me.

Jeffrey Besecker I'm not going to lie, but here we are. Well, it's good to see your face. It's been some time since we spoke last. And I'm excited to talk with you today.

Kathy Hadizadeh Me, too. Me, too. Yes. The last time I had to reschedule our call, my dad was having some health challenges. How is he doing? He's doing much better. Thank you for asking. But that day we had to run into the doctor. You know, those things happen in life.

Jeffrey Besecker I recall that now. Well, I am glad he is on the up and up now.

Kathy Hadizadeh Yeah, me too. That's part of the interesting path of life.

Jeffrey Besecker Yes. Oh, so interesting. Speaking of that, to throw it for instance, out there just yesterday, my wife lost both an aunt and uncle within an hour of each other. Both of them passed. It's just that uncertain fragility of life. Sometimes I feel smacks us very squarely in the face where that unpredictability, we just never know when it's going to Oh, we never know. I'm sorry. Well, thank you. I feel that deep in my heart. They both have had continuing ongoing health battles. We knew they were both in decline, but just that shock of everything kind of coming to a head and happening at once. Yeah, it's really startled.

Kathy Hadizadeh It is. How is she doing?

Jeffrey Besecker She's hanging in there. Like I said, we've watched their health decline. They're both in their 80s, you know. So some of that expectancy, you kind of start preparing yourself for those things. Yeah. Nevertheless, just that shock is her mother's brother and sister. And just to say, wow, how that can happen and transpire not only within the same day with literally almost an hour, hour and a half time frame apart.

Kathy Hadizadeh Oh, you have a point about

Jeffrey Besecker the sting any less. Yeah, it does not soften that stain and blow, that grief. No. It's astounding to sit and look at. I'm just in awe and wonder sometimes of how things unfold in front of us.

Kathy Hadizadeh That is very true. And kind of what kind of tests are we being put into because it's a test of how we deal with things too in these times. Sometimes, you know, when I heard the expression trying times, I was like, okay, what does that mean? But then I realized, yeah, it is trying to be afloat and live life. That is what the trying is referring to, at least in my mind. How can I navigate this in this lifetime?

Jeffrey Besecker In that regard, all of our times, what are we trying to do? What do we intend to do? And how do we sometimes just vulnerably surrender those trying circumstances and allow them to unfold?

Kathy Hadizadeh But that is actually a battle. I think that's kind of relevant to our conversation topic today, too, because it is very hard to not do anything during those times because it's much easier to do something, to be busy, to wanting to escape.

Jeffrey Besecker And it gets a curious frame of reference for us to start today as we do look at that need or that drive toward the action bias. The action bias, that's interesting how we got into this point. I think it's a great kind of natural correlation today because we are so inspired to just act upon those trying times.

Kathy Hadizadeh Right, right. We go into can do to not be with this moment.

Jeffrey Besecker That's an interesting point. Leaning in today, can you explain how subconscious scripts influence our perspective on goal setting and how this impacts our ability to assess healthy risks when forming personal values, making optimal decisions, and setting effective goals? Wow, Jeffrey, first of all it's great to

Kathy Hadizadeh audience a definition of action bias? What do we mean by that? In our world, action bias is about basically doing something is a way to proving ourselves, to proving our existence, our worth, our value in this world. So basically our actions become equal to our worth in this lifetime. So that is the definition that we are going to into how that impacts us and leading to those healthy versus unhealthy choices that you brought up. We have to understand when we are looking at the equation of our existence from only the point of view of action, we are reducing our existence to the actions that we take, whereas our existence itself is a valuable entity Now, if you are unable to see that, then we only make choices based on pushing ourselves to take certain actions more and more and more, and we forget the value of our existence. That's how we get lost while taking more and more actions, but never really feeling that satisfaction in our hearts.

Jeffrey Besecker Our past experiences often influence those subconscious scripts in many regards, shaping the stories we form regarding those circumstances, influencing our perception of risk and our ability to objectively assess them. Kathy, from that perspective, what role do you feel biased heuristics or mental shortcuts play in our decision making and goal setting?

Kathy Hadizadeh Thank you for that question, Jeffrey, because this is a very important factor that in life, we are programmed to think any action is better than nothing. We are programmed to think that way. So we have been talking about subconscious. That is the programming that we carry in ourselves, that whenever there is a crisis or even in normal life, you're thinking, oh, just take some action and move forward. Do we give ourselves a chance to think that is really an action the best path to move forward? Sometimes inaction is necessary and inaction is the best path forward. And I have to tell our audience that inaction sometimes can be the hardest. As a matter of fact, you and I were just talking in the matters of loss and keep myself busy, so I don't have to think about it. I'm sure we all have heard that. I know I have been guilty of doing it myself. The thing is, we are avoiding the pain by keeping ourselves busy to that action bias thinking, oh, taking action is going to do something for us. Whereas in these kind of cases, not taking action is the healthy choice. allowing ourselves to learn to be with the pain so we can process it. There's a beautiful saying that I learned from Dr. Rick Hansen that he said, let it be, let it go, let it in. And I think there's such a big wisdom in that, that we do not allow ourselves to access that wisdom when we are drawn in our action bias.

Jeffrey Besecker We've got some great episodes coming up, looking at how that act of anticipatory anxiety and anticipatory grief affect how we approach such things like grief and loss themselves. Right. Looking at how we start to form that story ahead of time. If I stay busy, I won't think and feel this. If I avoid this, sometimes the underlying script that's going on, it's that act of avoidance where we're trying to run away from those very feelings.

Kathy Hadizadeh I love what you said. Anticipatory anxiety. Let's look at that because I think we sometimes put ourselves in jail before even the sentence. I think that's what happens in life. I give you an example myself. Years ago, my child was getting to the middle school age. And I was thinking in my head, there's no way I'm going to send my child to a public middle school. The child needs to go to a private middle school. And private middle schools in Los Angeles are really expensive. And so I, the child was, I don't know, at that time, seven, eight. and I was living in the world of, oh, when my child gets to 10, 11, which is the middle school age. So all these years, I was putting myself in this anticipatory anxiety that you alluded to. It's an example for your audience so they understand what we are talking about in here. And I took actions out of that anticipatory anxiety that was not true to me, that was not beneficial moments of my life at that time with my child. And as you and I know, both Jeffrey, my child is never going to be that age again, and I will never be in that age again too. So there is a loss of time, of life, of moments, that the cause of it was that anticipatory anxiety and my tendency to have that action bias, thinking, oh, I should do something about it. I should do something about it so the child can go to that private school. So going back to the point that anticipatory anxiety is anticipating a loss. Yes, we can look into things, but if we feel like I'm going to be in control and in the driver's seat all the time, ahead of time can lead to us losing the moment that we have. And who had guaranteed me that five years from then would be available to us? I mean, that was really short-sighted thinking. Now, I'm not saying that people should not think about the future, but there is a way to look at the future and take action that is away from that anticipatory anxiety and grieving that you mentioned.

Jeffrey Besecker In that regard, I feel our self-concepts, our identity, play a large role in shaping that perspective. How do you feel healthy ego development might impact how we start to form those views?

Kathy Hadizadeh I love this question because this is honestly a hard one for egos, shaping my actions in life. And let's think about that. I think ego is a necessity sometimes for life so that we can be ambitious and we can move forward and we can move ahead. But it is very important that we be able to understand we really don't have control. We really don't. I mean, whoever wants to come and challenge me on that, I welcome that.

Jeffrey Besecker I look at that perspective of what we can influence or interact with. I like to walk us into that need so much to control. What can I influence and what can I interact with? Frees us from that kind of overly resistive emotional response to just cling tight, to look for that black and white thinking, to be binary in our choices, in our perspectives.

Kathy Hadizadeh I'm going to zoom in on the word binary in here because that binary concept is what ties back to the control. People think of control in binary terms too. Do I have control? Do I not have control? So that's very zero-one thinking. How about we start making a shift that I do what is in my power, but I let it unfold the way that it is supposed to unfold while knowing my intention. That's a different way of looking at it because we are allowing a lot of gray to come in. by gray, I mean that area that I let it unfold however it needs to unfold. I set my intention, but I do not really cannot sit down and control it every single minute of its unfolding because otherwise I'm losing my time and energy. So the problem a lot of us face, especially when it comes to having an action bias, is we do not have that gray. We do not have access to that gray because with zero one thinking, we are pushing for or strengthening a brain that is rigid, that is looking for that zero one. That gray area needs a brain that has flexibility built into it. And that flexibility in the brain is a muscle that we need to strengthen it because we do not come out of the package with that muscle. So it needs work.

Jeffrey Besecker We often look at that processes solely from the level of the brain mindset, yet our unconscious somatic processes come into play, you know, our emotional regulation operates within the central nervous system. Our gut instincts, the digestive system comes into play. Our endocrine system, perhaps being one of the most under-recognized, what chemical processes, hormonal interactions are going on during that interaction becomes pertinent to that process. Yet, one of our limiting beliefs we often form, one of the subconscious scripts we create is that it's to blame on the brain alone. Oh, yeah.

Kathy Hadizadeh Okay. Okay. Yes, you are right, Jeffrey, that we can blame it on our brain because our subconscious programming is trying to find a scapegoat. The brain is a pretty good scapegoat. Our mindset can be a pretty good scapegoat. So what do we do? One thing that you are making me think and share with the audience is how we can go back one step and look into our own relationship with action. So let's look into that together. One of the things in life is to be able to see, do I have the ability to take a pause and be with myself? And yes, people can go to a spa and have a relaxing time and nothing wrong with that. It's an amazing thing to do. But it doesn't mean per se that they are allowing themselves to be with themselves. for a lot of people maybe I can tell you from experience because in my methodology pause to rise one of the very very first steps that my clients experience and it's one of the most torturous moments of their life probably is that we start with asking them I want to invite you to sit with yourself for one minute. You have all these minutes in the day I want one minute of your time to just speak with yourself. And Jeffrey, I can't tell you how many times people come back to me and say, I had no idea. It's like a light bulb going off in there. They spend all these minutes doing all these amazing things because I mostly work with people who are high achievers and are achieving something every day in their lifetime. But this one minute sitting with themselves can be this excruciating. So what does it tell us? How much we are programmed in that subconscious to be okay with all these things that we need to be doing. can break, meaningful break, which is not always possible and accessible to us. So you see how many layers are in there in our programming that lead to not having access to ourselves even for one minute. I want to invite everybody listening to this, Jeffrey, to take this challenge and go and see how do they feel if they sit for one minute with themselves trying to pay attention This breathing that is happening thousands of times a day, just for one minute.

Jeffrey Besecker We're going to pause. How quick does that space get uncomfortable as we just simply pause and just be? It's a good space to look at because that starts to signal where we feel that discomfort, where we feel that disease, but just accepting and being. How quick are we stimulated to move to action rather than just pausing and sitting with the moment?

Kathy Hadizadeh Very true. If there are coaches listening to us, One of the hardest things is the pauses when you ask a question and the person is thinking because they have to reflect. And a person needs to be trained to be comfortable with that silence because the other person needs that space to think, to process. And that's such an uncomfortable space for a lot of coaches that they try to fill it with words and words and words and words and words. That's not what we need, more of it.

Jeffrey Besecker In that regard, you know, one of our core patterns or drivers in that instance, from my perspective, is that ego filter that says I have to have an answer right now, rather than pausing with that client, rather than pausing with that individual throughout our lives and just holding space. So often we're conditioned to those patterns of emotional projection. I have to project how I feel about this, often coming from that very subconscious programming that says, I have to have an answer or they're going to judge me. I have to do this or I'm wrong. I have to do this or I'm failing myself or I'm failing the other individual.

Kathy Hadizadeh I have to Let's see how much that drives us in life. If there are leaders and professionals listening to us, I want to ask them to reflect on how many times you have jumped into just saying something to feel like, oh yeah, I have to say something because I'm the subject matter expert in here and they expect me to say something. And how many times have you allowed yourself to say, I really don't have an answer right now, but let me sit with it and see what comes up to me. And how acceptable is that in the corporate world? We have to ask that.

Jeffrey Besecker Again, that's a much larger cultural question. We could pause and address perhaps in another episode. And I think we might have some on the schedule coming out looking at some of those very issues down the road. By and large, from my perspective, those are rising from control dramas. Our need to control and manipulate then becomes that conflict cycle. We'll look at that at a future date. When it comes to mobile service providers, with their high-rate plans, extra fees, and hidden cost or expenses, many of the big-name networks leave a bad taste in your mouth. Mint Mobile is a new flavor of mobile network service, sharing all the same reliable features of the big name brands, yet at a fraction of the cost. I recently made the change to Mint Mobile and I can't believe the monthly savings, allowing me to put more money in my pocket for the things which truly light me up inside. Making the switch to Mint Mobile is easy. Hosted on the T-Mobile 5G network, Mint gives you premium wireless service on the nation's largest 5G network. With bulk savings on flexible plan options, Mint offers 3-, 6-, and 12-month plans, and the more months you buy, the more you save. Plus, you can also keep your current phone or upgrade to a new one, keep your current number or change to a new one as well, and all of your contacts, apps, and photos will seamlessly and effortlessly follow you to your new low-cost Mint provider. Did I mention the best part? You keep more money in your pocket. And with Mint's referral plan, you can rescue more friends from big wireless bills while earning up to $90 for each referral. Visit our Mint Mobile affiliate link at thelightinside.us forward slash sponsors for additional mobile savings or activate your plan in minutes with the Mint Mobile app. In our rush to expectancy, we constantly seek control over our lives. Goal-oriented in nature, humans naturally seek certainty. We see it as an act of our survival and a need to assert our authority. However, this sense of urgency can frequently cloud our vision and influence effective decision-making. Ever wonder why you feel like a speed racer when making decisions? The science tells us it's easy to get caught up in our emotions, fearing the harsh judgments we make as we self-assess and that others will perceive us as failures. When this happens, we can lose sight of the big picture and fail to give our best effort to the decision at hand. Our urgency to decide often hinges on how we feel about the results and what others might think. But here's the plot twist. In our race to the finish line, we sometimes miss the pit stops that lead to success. It's where the action bias comes in, pushing us to rush and neglecting the crucial details. Kathy, looking at ego development and how that influences our psyche by shaping our identity systems, belief systems, and emotional modulation. Moving even beyond emotional regulation, emotional intelligence tells us sometimes we just have that healthy relationship. with emotion, where we allow it to rise and fall, we allow it to come and go, rather than looking to even regulate it, which is in some regards a form of control, we allow it to modulate, we allow it to happen, we think of things moving. In that regard, looking at unitive ego development, we look at mature stages of personal growth characterized by a deep sense of interconnectedness. How are we moving together rather than driving each other apart? In that regard, what role do you feel unitive ego development plays in helping individuals navigate the influences of their subconscious scripts on their decision making and goal setting? Coming back to that idea.

Kathy Hadizadeh There is one element in here in what you said regarding regulating our emotions and how that ties back to our interconnectedness, how that can tie back to our goal setting. Why does it all tie back? Because if we are not able to regulate our emotions, yes, there is an element of control in there, but regulating our emotions goes back to the fact that we are able not to react Yes, there is control in there, but there is a control in there that helps us rise above ourselves. When we react, think about how many hours and minutes of your life you will be spending on regret or making decisions that you will not end up happy with the consequences. So that is such a big factor of how can I move from because if we are not able to evolve from that reacting into responding, how can we set goals? We will be always in this state of fighting with ourselves, with the world, with the whole thing. We have to understand as humans we have limited energy. In our mind, mind, in our body, in our lifetime. So it brings up another point of view that I want to invite people to think about it, which is the amount of energy that we have and how our action bias can deplete our energy. Because if you're all the time in this mode that I need to do something, I need to do something, we are not able to really understand is this going towards what we are aligned to be doing, or is this just some escorted action because we are addicted to action. There's that addiction piece in the mind too, in our brain too, that we feel like, okay, let me just do this. But do we allow ourselves to think that, oh, is this in line with the values had a client that brought to me something that was very interesting because there is on top of all of these things that we are talking about, Jeffrey, there is the ethical and moral dilemma that can come on top of it. So this was a very interesting case that this person was in charge of a group of salespeople and these salespeople were claiming their opportunities that has not materialized yet as a valid sales. as their closed sales, which is they thought that, you know, talking to the person, to the customer and the customer saying that, hey, yeah, I might be interested. They would change the mic into, yes, I actually have done the sale, which ethically is not the right thing to do because you technically haven't done the sales. And this person brought this to me. And as we are exploring this together, we stumbled upon value. She doesn't have an authority or a way to prevent them from doing it. But we talked about what about we bring the value system up.

null Is this in line with your value system?

Kathy Hadizadeh If integrity is a value for you to go and claim this in your sales numbers. And that brought another layer, which is if people are very much into action, have they even thought about their values at all? Like what governs me in this lifetime?

Jeffrey Besecker so often in those interactions and within our own relationships, you know, when we look at our relationships within, how we view that construct of the self, we tend to get that spotlight effect where we only focus on certain things, certain values, this value is meaningful to me, So now I am cognitively fused with that. I've become bonded with that idea. I'm holding on tight to that idea of control, and that becomes selective reinforcement. I'm going to reinforce the idea that this is meaningful, yet neglect these other things, especially when it comes to neglecting that view of other people's perspective. Those things we hold on to become our belief systems, our values, our psychological constructs. In that regard, how does our ability to assess different perspectives influence our outcomes when it comes to those personal values, decision making and goal setting?

Kathy Hadizadeh I love this question because yes, our beliefs and our values can build our psychological constructs. However, there is a trick in here we all need to pay attention to. people for the first time and I have this value workshops with people and I asked them what are your values people come up with a laundry list of values Jeffrey like oh yeah and kindness and then compassion and then empathy yeah empathy is a good one too and yet they just come up with this laundry list like a lot And then as we go through the exercise, we get to a point that I ask them, well, you need to get to six and that's where it becomes very challenging because it's like going into a candy shop and all the candies look really, really tempting. However, there is something that we need to pay attention to. And that is, what values look good to us is different from what values we actually want to exercise in our life. Very big difference in here. People put normally whatever looks good to them. Yes, as humans, a lot of people will say kindness because kindness feels good to them. We humans have a tendency, a lot of us, not everybody, to think that kindness is a good value. But how do you portray that in your life? Do you really live by kindness? What was the last time you were kind to somebody? that you can go and really say this is how I live my life by. So there is a difference, a vast difference between what looks good to us in the values and what we actually live by and breathe by and that what we live by and breathe by that changes over time. This is a very key point because our value system can change. I can't tell you how many people I have seen that this pandemic has totally changed their value system.

null They are

Kathy Hadizadeh equation of life differently, where money-making was a big key or they call it security when it comes to value. People don't say money-making because everybody feels bad about saying money-making is something important for them, whereas money is an important part of life. They call it security. I can't tell you how many people are replacing security with legacy.

Jeffrey Besecker Very often as we're forming those values, we rely on those mental shortcuts known as biases or heuristics, those kind of quick go-to equations that help us move to that quicker judgment. Sometimes they can be to our benefit, but more often than not, they work to our detriment. From that perspective, could you provide us some examples or some common experiences you have had where these biased heuristics might have been encountered when making those assessments of risk or making value-based decisions?

Kathy Hadizadeh Yeah, the biases. I know we have been talking about action bias. That's one thing that we have been talking about. There are other kinds of biases. Let's go back to the definition of bias first. What do we call bias? Bias are the shortcuts that we have built in our brain based on our experiences in life so that our brain has to spend less energy when making decisions. For example, we see an opportunity in a Fortune 500 company. If we have been laid off by a big corporation, Fortune 500, even if the opportunity is a going back to an organization of that size. So that's a bias because we will not even read that job description. for a large Fortune 500 company is equal to being laid off and going through the trauma or unpleasant feeling again. So that's the definition of bias, number one, that we have to be aware of. Now, one thing that it is that we need to look into is that how many of those shortcuts have we built? How many times do we even want to read that job description, Jeffrey, before even doing something? Think about it. I urge everybody who is listening to us to those, skipping those job descriptions that I gave you in this example. When you're looking at people's resumes, when you are looking into your next step in your life, how many things are you dismissing? a little bit but hey maybe it helps somebody else not to experience that shame. I have been donating to a company, to an organization, to a non-profit called Child Foundation for 20 years or something like that. I discovered them long ago and I was happy with that. And then there was a lapse in what I was doing with them and there came another organization called Keep Children in School. I'm originally from Iran so Iran is a country that keeping children in school is a big deal at this point in time due to the financial situation. So when I first heard about that organization, even though one of my values is Keep Children in School, Child Foundation, why don't they merge forces? I don't know why there are two organizations. And I did not allow myself to become more curious. I did not. And the founder of that Keep Children in School was a person that I knew personally. We had played in theater together years ago. But I dismissed the idea. this person who was the funder of that organization, unfortunately, was battling a stage four cancer and she passed earlier this year. And it made me think about all those kids that have been relying on their help.

null And I was thinking, wow, now what's going to happen?

Kathy Hadizadeh Really, for the first time, I started thinking about that. All these years, I didn't think about it. They have been in action for nine years and I didn't think about this. Shame on me. I'm being honest here of what biases do to us. And then when she was gone and a friend that I knew that she was a younger professional, she decided to step up and take her seat. That was when I was like, you need to support them. Forget about what that organization is, what this organization is, whatever. Maybe there is a difference, maybe there is not, but there are kids that they were under cover of this organization. Now you need to act care. If your value is kindness, make your goal to help them.

null And that is when I left the bias aside.

Kathy Hadizadeh And last night when I went to their fundraising, wow, this organization has a different perspective than the Child Foundation. I missed out. So audience that are listening to us, Jeffrey, I invite them to read their job descriptions. Don't just dismiss the ideas and opportunities, especially if it is something that is challenging your values. so that you can find your goals in line with your values without dismissing opportunities.

Jeffrey Besecker Looking at that idea of shame, we've mentioned that a couple of times today. From my own personal experience, that experience of shame can become a very biased reaction where we try to avoid feeling that very uncomfortable emotion. 50 years of my life, I battled that in the form of anger. It took 50 years of my life to finally unravel and get to the bottom of what drove that anger was an underlying, unaddressed sense of guilt and shame. Guilt and shame around processing my emotions alone and expressing them in a healthy way. that lack of information itself being a biases on top of a biases. Drawing from some research to relate to this, pulling from an organization called the Decision Lab that studies personal and institutional biases and heuristics within their organization, they've come to the conclusion that the top three biased heuristics that commonly influence decision making itself, The availability heuristic, which is relying on readily available information. If we don't take the time to gather information at times, we miss that opportunity to be more informed. We balance that healthy relationship between action and inaction, processing and non-processing, gathering and executing, perhaps even looking at confirmation bias. which at its core is seeking information that confirms an existing belief. In my own scenario, I formed a lot of existing beliefs about what it meant to be angry and why I was angry. Some of those being conditioned beliefs. Some of those even being cultural beliefs that said, you come from a long line of hot-headed Germans, therefore we get angry and that's just how you act. with a limiting belief based on cultural appropriation. Confirming that existing belief to try to validate unhealthy expressions of anger. Looking at number three on that list, anchoring bias, which is fixating on an initial reference point and insufficiently adjusting for it. There again, that reference point for me specifically was anchored in that idea of anger. Why we get angry, why we express anger underneath that belief that I was just in that environment. It was just who you were. Was that hidden element of guilt and shame being fixated on the idea of anger itself never got out of the way long enough for me to look at why I was angry in the first place. Some of those factors intermingle. Nevertheless, we go back and look at that idea of fixating on a single reference point and not sufficiently adjusting to consider a different perspective. From that regard, what role do you feel self-reflection and mindfulness play in breaking free from the constraints of biased heuristics and our subconscious scripts?

Kathy Hadizadeh So first of all, I love what you shared from Decision Lab. And one thing that we have to pay attention to is how much we justify, how much we justify. And before I answer your question, I really want to invite everybody to think about how much they justify whatever it is that is constantly coming up. And they are like, oh, yeah, I have always been like that. How many times do we say that? So become curious about that. This is something that just came up for me as I was listening to you because I think that is the biggest fundamental thing we can learn from the research that Decision Lab has done. How much do we justify? How much do we justify? So now going back to answer that question that you asked about self-reflection. Self-reflection is based on the idea of curiosity. It is allowing ourselves to become curious. One of the practices in mindfulness, especially in insight meditation, is can I become curious about this breath that I am taking at this moment, which is the same breath that you and I are taking 40,000 times or whatever it is during the day. But can I become curious about it? Now, there is something very fundamental in here that we need to pay attention to and why it is not always available to people by themselves, which is with that curiosity, Jeffrey, comes the voice, the voice of awe. not good enough or all those kind of voices or the commentary that nobody wants to listen to. So there is a big element in attention with kindness and curiosity. So I'm going to give your audience a definition of mindfulness because I believe in definitions and I believe that there is all kinds of definitions out there but there's one definition that I take it to heart that I learned from Diana Winston and Dr. Marvin Belzer at UCLA Mindfulness Awareness Research Center. And to me, that has proven to be very, very valuable, which is mindfulness is paying attention to the present moment with kindness, So that self-reflection that you're talking about is a very important thing, but it is very important to have the conditions set for it. Because if you are sitting there and reflecting and judging ourselves every step of the way, we will feel really bad about ourselves. I don't want to use the other word, but the audience can guess, we really feel like icky and we're like, We have to learn a couple of practices before we can even do that self-reflection. Can I become more curious? Can I become kinder to myself? And can I stop judging myself every step of the way? Which goes back to a very, very big fundamental thing, Jeffrey, which is self-compassion. Can I hold myself the way I hold my best friend? It's a question I always ask people. Do you talk to yourself the way that you talk to your best friend? And the answer in 99.95% of the times is no, of course not. So yes, these practices play a very fundamental role in understanding why do I feel that shame and the shame is stemming from my anger and that anger is stemming from whatever experience I've had in life. But there are conditions to be able to go as frustrated and angry as the time we went into it. Because these things seem so simple, Jeffrey, but there is a lot that goes into it.

Jeffrey Besecker There's two sides to every coin. You know, we follow that. Sometimes it's only being stuck in believing that there's only two sides to that coin. If we look at whatever currency coin we look at, dime, nickel, whatever country you're in, we can sometimes also see that there's an additional depth to the ridge around the outside of that coin that we often overlook as we're only looking at those two sides. What are we missing in that detail? Finally, today, as we look at that idea of mindfulness, Kathy, would you share with us some strategies or techniques for individuals to become more aware of their subconscious constructs and overcome the influence this plays on setting goals and shaping our values? Yeah, for sure.

Kathy Hadizadeh So as a person allows themselves to sit with themselves and reflect and be with their breath more, there are revelations that happen. For example, patterns. We become aware of, oh, maybe after so-and-so things, I feel better about myself. Or after so-and-so events, why do I feel so down? savvy about the patterns that we have and understanding our own patterns is key to seeing what we seek more in this lifetime and what we need to seek less of in this lifetime, which eventually shapes what kind of goals do we want to set for ourselves. to see like what direction do I want to spend this precious life that is given to me. That is even bigger than the goal setting. So whoever is listening to us today, I want to invite you as we are approaching 2024, there is another year upon us in what, less than three months. I want to invite you to think about what direction do you want to lead this life of yours and then go back from Like this year, I give you an example. Last year, I was in a group coaching that I was facilitating. There was one person that came and she was the CEO of a company, of a biotech company. And she came and said, this year, I decided to focus more on connections. So the beginning of the year, I put a calendar and I put all these different trips that we can go and be with my family or with friends in my calendar. And as I was listening to her, I was like, wow, that is brilliant. She was very clear on the direction and she had taken action. It's an example of a good action. So this 2023, as And then from that perspective, I did the reverse engineering. What does connection mean to me? What does connection feel like to me? So now go and set the goals based on that, and then go and take some actions based on that. So allowing ourselves to be more mindful in real practical terms in life. And I call that taking the practice out of the cushion into real life. Because these practices, we are not monks, all of us. We are not. Frankly, we are not. I don't know how many monks would listen to this podcast, but… Actually, we've had a couple on just recently. Beautiful, beautiful. I mean, David, there is something here.

Jeffrey Besecker I let chuckle to myself as you said that because we've just actually talked to a couple within the last few episodes.

Kathy Hadizadeh But for the mere mortals like myself, it's how we can take the practice more from the cushion into living life, into really these practices are allowing us a way of life. I want to encourage people to not think of it as something nice to have. I want to invite you to think about it as essentials for living a happier life. You said monks, it reminds me of Thich Nhat Hanh and how his teachings have shaped me in my thinking around my life and around leadership and around the work I do with the leaders. It is important to understand And wisdom, how does wisdom apply to my daily life? And not just a nice coat to look at and enjoy while I'm simmering my coffee, while I'm sipping on my coffee.

Jeffrey Besecker Sometimes we have to get out of our own box that normal frame of reference that's forming the patterns we've held on to, in order to simply see a new perspective of patterns. Looking at the Gaia Channel not too long ago, at Sacred Geometry and how most things throughout life are just that same basic core replication of patterns, all the way down to our energetic core. I want to thank you today, Kathy, for reminding us to just simply be mindful of those patterns and how we can create new, more empowered action and goals as we travel through life. This truly, truly has been such an insightful conversation. Namaste. Namaste. The light in me acknowledges the light in you. Thank you so much for visiting us today.

Kathy Hadizadeh Thank you for having me, Jeffrey. I truly enjoyed our conversation.

Jeffrey Besecker This truly has been a fun ride together. I look forward to doing it again soon. Absolutely. Looking forward to it. Thank you. It's in our moments of decision that our destiny is shaped. And regardless of success or failure, the decisions we make shape the pathways we choose. Therefore, nothing can be more difficult, more precious than our ability to simply decide. The act of choice is made clear when our values are defined, encouraging us to make choices that are in line with our core. Yet, at times, our values conflict. In this case, go with your gut and let that light inside shine. If you found value in this message, please share it with a friend or loved one. And as always, we're grateful for you, our valued listening community. This has been The Light Inside. I'm Jeffrey Besecker.