Subconscious Scripts: Exploring the Haunting Power of Our Stories with Dee Miceli

 Subconscious Scripts: Exploring the Haunting Power of Our Stories with Dee Miceli

Jeffrey Besecker: This is The Light Inside, I'm Jeffrey Biesecker. Our stories, they haunt us in the deeper, darker recesses of our minds, much like ghosts. Deeper still, their energy ingradiates our inner worlds, and at times shaping who and what we believe we are, in all that we feel we might ever be. Believing they define us, we blindly follow their lead. Nevertheless, who or what spins these tireless tales? Who am I? What am I? Does an I even exist? the familiar, and the not-so-familiar intertwined. Are we conscious creators? Or might there be deeper factors at play? We may think that we're acting rationally or freely, but in reality, we often follow the programs and scripts of the subconscious mind. Today, we look at how our subconscious scripts influence every thought, emotion, feeling, action, and interaction throughout our lives. and how understanding the complex interplay of these narratives allows us to become the conscious creators of these scenarios. Tune in to find out how when we return to The Light Inside. We'd like to offer a shout out to our affiliate matching partner, Podmatch.com. Podmatch is the revolutionary podcasting matching system driven by AI. As an industry leader in podcast guesting and hosting, they are a go-to solution for creating meaningful podcast interactions. Podmatch.com makes finding the ideal guest or host effortless. Stop by and visit our affiliate link today at www.thelightinside.us. Our subconscious scripts inform and influence every area of our lives. Constantly sending signals to our conscious brain, they inform our decisions and actions, influencing our behavior in very subtle ways, many of which we're unaware. For example, when faced with difficult decisions, we often turn to our initial instincts, which can be shaped by our past experiences. Our initial instincts, based on and deeply influenced by the past experiences of implicit memories, giving us a sense of familiarity and comfort. Yet, here's the thing, our implicit memories are often incomplete. We can also rely on our gut feeling as it arises from our body's nonverbal cues and emotions as they occur within the inner realms of the solar plexus. However, these two frequently rely on the deeply ingrained aspects of our commonly held biases and the distorted perceptions of our mental heuristics. Consequently, we try to rely on these shortcuts rather than forming a broader, clearer picture of our lives. Today, we talk with Intuitive Life Coach, Dee Maselli, as we explore how to bring to the surface the deeply recessed secrets that constitute the subconscious scripts of our inner minds, and how they guide, influence, and inform everything from what we think to what and how we feel. Today, we look at how the negativity bias influences the subconscious scripts that inform the level of ego development we're able to engage throughout our lives. D, subconscious scripts and people-pleasing behaviors contribute to what is commonly known as the imposter syndrome by reinforcing a fixed self-concept often rooted in the early stages of ego development. Yes, I said ego development hindering individuals from embracing their core abilities and traits. As we dive in today, could you help us define the concept of subconscious scripts and how these constructs trigger the negativity bias and influence the development of these subconscious scripts?
Dee Miceli: Absolutely, so really this is the basis of how we develop as people if you want to call it ego development. 95% of the beliefs we're walking around with today as adults are developed between basically zero and seven because there's research now showing that we're developing those beliefs even before we're born. And so most people are operating out of those scripts between zero and seven. So they're usually disempowering scripts because we are at that age, our minds are literally, we're living in a theta state, right? We can play pretend that we're flying on a broom when it's really a broom, but we don't see it as a broom. We see it as a, you know, it's an actual flying device. So, So what we are operating out of is a sense of our hearts are completely open, but what drives our need to be a person, to become, is to be seen, to be heard, to be loved. And so what we're hearing through our parents' interactions, our caregivers' interactions, is what we are taking in as the rules of the game. It's like, okay, in order to be picked up, I need to cry. In order to be fed, I need to have this motion with my head. So we begin to learn very young, this subconscious programming that really gets kind of cemented at that time. And so that becomes the reels, the downloads, you know, I can recall you turn on a computer and you're waiting for the program to come up. Well, that program is so automatic because it's cemented at such a young age. So it really becomes our operating system. So that's really kind of where it all starts. And the needs are, you know, pretty basic human needs, right? We want to be taken care of. We want to be sure that we're pleasing in the ways that get the response that we need, because we were pretty helpless when we're born and really till age seven, you know, we need our parents to survive. Of course we need them much longer than that, but those are the critical, critical years. And, The emotions, and we'll go into this I'm sure more, but the emotions are the things that get cemented to those behaviors. So if the child cries and doesn't get picked up, eventually it learns like I either have to cry louder, longer, or maybe it's not crying. Maybe then the child becomes more quiet. So all of that learning becomes the subconscious scripts.

Jeffrey Besecker: The scripts are basically those stories we tell ourselves, those beliefs we hang on to, that guide, as you mentioned, that automatic thinking. So often I feel, I want to make mention of this today, so often I feel We see that conditioning as just being inherently a negative pattern, yet we rely on that same conditioning level of patterning to form our daily habits, to remain consistent, to look for consistent motivation, anything of that nature that we can also be positively weighted by. So I want to make that note today as we dive in looking at negativity bias so we don't somewhat mislead.

Dee Miceli: Exactly, yes.

Jeffrey Besecker: In that regard, before we dive too far deep into that negativity bias, I feel our listeners might benefit from us differentiating between conscious mind and the subconscious mind and how these two work together or independently. Would you share your personal insights with us, Dee, with this regard to these processes?

Dee Miceli: Yeah I agree it really is important because I think the way that the subconscious has been defined has been very like even in the word sub it's like under you know or less capable than the conscious mind right so the way that I look at it is the subconscious mind as I said is something that is developed most intently from zero to seven but it certainly continues as many psychologists believe all the way through you know young adulthood that we're developing these subconscious scripts. so it is the automatic part of our operation system you know it's when we turn on the computer now right we're not waiting for the program everything pops right up you know based on what we said we want to see when we turn it on and so in this case though with the subconscious we're not choosing which programs the programs are just there right and especially if we haven't done the work whereas the conscious mind it's the logical it's the in the moment, it's the focus, I'm going to set goals, I'm going to push through it. I think of like stoicism, like just keep going, you know, just hammer away at those things that you want. And there's nothing wrong with that kind of thinking, but what we know now, and we've known it for decades, like I keep talking about it as though it's new information, but What we know is that that's only operational like 5% of the time. So we can be doing and pushing and working the goals and all of that, but unless we keep pushing that hard against it, then we start to find like, why aren't things working? Wait a minute, you know, I have this belief going on in my head that I'm not going to be able to figure out this. darn email program or whatever it is that I'm fighting against. So that's where the two parts, I think the biggest misperception is that the subconscious is weak, the subconscious can be you know hypnotized and you know the subconscious is not powerful and actually it's really the opposite and I think Freud was one of the first ones that used the iceberg metaphor but I love that iceberg metaphor because you know what we see on the surface is the conscious mind and I've got to do this today, I've got to do that, I've got to go pick up so and so and you know but the subconscious mind is so much bigger and much more powerful and automatic than is the conscious mind. So that's I think the simplest kind of basis for what our discussions are here today so I'll leave it there.

Jeffrey Besecker: You mentioned how those often emotionally driven automatic patterns can sometimes pop up, say pop up, kind of like a pop up window in your computer. I'm going to run with that narrative today. Can you explain briefly how self-sabotaging patterns like people pleasing behaviors often driven by the concept of the imposter syndrome are linked either directly or indirectly to the negativity bias?

Dee Miceli: Yes, absolutely. I like to use an example in this one because I think it's one that many people can relate to. After COVID, a lot of people are like, OK, I've got to move out into the world, whether it's to find friends or to find partners or whatever. So being that we were all traumatized by that event, right, that added to the intensity of like, OK, I've got to try to now exist in this different world. Right. you know, meeting people with a mask on, all that goes along with the algorithms of trying to meet people, which happens mostly on a computer these days, right? So put all of that aside. So I'm getting ready to go meet someone, just, you know, let's just do the scenario. And I'm like, yeah, you know, she seems really cool. And I, well, she's a coach also, and I really need a good friend. She lives nearby. And all of a sudden, all this negative self-talk starts coming in. It's like, What if she's not all that she says she is? You know, like thinking all the things that maybe I put my best foot forward. All of a sudden, these questions start firing in the brain and you start to doubt. A lot of it has to do with doubt, self-judgment, and so there is the subconscious mind running wild, I call it. Because, you know, then it's like not only do you have those initial doubts, but if it keeps going, and there are some theories about like if it goes on for 15 seconds, It's you got to really get up and do something different, change your environment, because you've got momentum now. So the questions start firing. Well, what if she this? What if she that? And then there's the self judgment, which goes. You always do this. You always get too excited. You always get let down. Um, and so now you're reinforcing, you've triggered, and this is where, you know, we didn't even have that word emotionally. Now everybody's triggered by everything, right? But you have triggered a bunch of parts. You triggered that little kid who never got picked to be on the dodgeball team, whatever team it was, you were the last one picked because you just weren't athletic. So all of that becomes triggered and all of a sudden, that's now self-sabotage because something as innocent as you know I meet someone well you know if we don't hit it off no big deal not everybody is gonna like everybody but now I pulled up all of this stuff so now I go there with this energy of fear of self-judgment and am I really going to be able to be my authentic self so it really can interfere with how you move forward in your you know in the moment in that situation. And so I think that's a good sort of way to describe that negativity bias. So whether or not you react with judgment, fear, everyone is going to be different in what comes up for them based on the memories and the traumas and micro traumas that they've had. And our conscious mind, it doesn't differentiate and say, oh, tag, that one is from when you were six. It doesn't do that. It doesn't even know where it's coming from. It doesn't have a way of differentiating. So when we begin to do that you know of course when you do this inner work you can begin to realize wait a minute you know that's my younger part you know and that's where this kind of work is really powerful because when you can recognize where it has come from and identify the primary motion with it that's what we work on healing with the language, with the statements, with the commands to talk to those parts, you know, which I know we'll get more into later. But I think that kind of describes that negativity bias development there.

Jeffrey Besecker: So often, you know, we look at that role of self-concept and ego development and how that acts as either a filtering or perspective shaping device, how we view ourselves, how we view our situations and circumstances. Looking back now at that role of ego development we kind of alluded to as I tiptoed in today, often addressed from the perspective or variety of perspectives beginning with the ancient wisdom of the Vedic traditions of Tao Te Ching to those espoused by Western psychology shared by Freud and Jung, And now, as our focus here at The Light Inside considers both the former perspectives and the more ancient traditional wisdoms in migrating through Western traditions and into the more quote-unquote modern aspects espoused by Jan Lovinger and Susan Cook Grutter, looking at unitive ego development. Unitive ego development plays a pivotal role in forming healthy associations and self-concepts by fostering a deep sense of self-awareness, empathy, and emotional maturity. At its core, the simple concepts we're going to hang on those three today without diving too deeply in those actions of unitive ego development themselves. Self-awareness, increased self-awareness, increased empathy, and expanded emotional maturity in how we view ourselves and how we view our interactions with others. others. From that basic premise today, in what ways do you feel the phases of unitive ego development might impact and inform our constructs of self and how that might become a more empowering perspective?

Dee Miceli: You know, it's really interesting because I think we're coming to a place where spirituality and science are really, you know, they're going hand in hand. Because when I looked more into this theory of ego developments that you mentioned, they're based on the parts of us, the parts of us that develop in response to our environment, right? Are you becoming more of a conformist? Because that was really expected in your family. Are you a conscientious one? Are you a protector or are you impulsive? All of those things are discouraged or encouraged, right? And I think it was Lovinger that says that the most persistent ones are from zero to 17. And so those are things that are either encouraged or discouraged. your ability to be able to impact those or to even know what they are is based on self-awareness. And that's one of the things that is a basis for the work that I do, is that you have to have a certain level of willingness to even become more self-aware or a self-awareness practice that you do that maybe, you know, maybe it needs a little updating, right? My self-awareness practices have been going on for years, but they have changed. with my growth and my learning and my understanding so when we deepen the self-awareness then we're able to have a different perspective of ourselves and that's where I think that emotional maturity comes in of being able to you know look at the self even as something that we can impact. Right. So there's a certain basis for that. And if if someone has a belief that, you know, I tried meditating for five minutes and it didn't work, so I'm going to go take a pill. They're not going to be receptive to this type of thing, you know, and that and there's no judgment there. It's just. Some people they're not there yet. They might not be there in this lifetime and there's no judgment on that But it really goes back to that the ego mind is anchored in the beliefs of that early time period so the beliefs that developed out of the need to be cared for to be loved to be to be So, you know, to carry that example a little bit further, that person who was a caregiver as a child to their family now may struggle with being authentic in adult relationships because they learned that to be loved, I have to take care of first. So they may be unable to see that they're not articulating their own needs well enough. So they get into a relationship that causes them to really not be authentic. They're not intentionally doing it is such a strong subconscious program that maybe they push through something else in their life. Like I'm not going to be what my family thinks I should be. But then that other part, that fawning caregiver part becomes even more strong than they think it could possibly be and they end up in unsatisfactory relationships whether it's at work or with partners where they haven't been their authentic selves and when they start to realize that they can develop, you know, just feelings of disconnect. the imposter feeling like how did I get here, how did I get into this job, how did I get into this relationship where the person really is not meeting my needs but you know what I never told them what they were. So I think that really addresses like how when we develop our ego based on those subconscious things that are developed when you know really can develop throughout life but the most cemented ones are that zero to seven time period But certainly many people can have experiences in adolescence that can be just as powerful. So I will leave that one there.

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Dee Miceli: That's a really big one. You know, I think that, you know, when you that and that last word that you said associations, I think if I go back to the family dynamic, you know, when you grow up in a and I speak from a, you know, boomer perspective, our parents were very much of the patriarchal system. So it was like, Okay, you want to go to college? You're a woman. That was still very much a part of their generations going back. The expectation was you behave a certain way, you have certain roles. And, you know, it sounds crazy to even say today, but those roles are alive and well, and they are being expected out of families, out of whole cultures, right? We still have cultures that do arranged marriages. So it becomes very disempowering for women to assert themselves, like I mentioned in the last segment there, just if you assert yourself in one way, it's like the other one takes 10 steps backwards. And then you're like, oh, wow, you know, I'm really disempowered in my relationship. well, look at my career, you know, but it's like, we feel almost like we have to overcompensate for moving ahead in an area where we weren't expected or supposed to. And so I think that as we gain these tools as women, I think the biggest, you know, there's two points I want to make is one is when we start to say, I don't want to feel disempowered anymore, but wow, it scares the crap out of me to think about asserting my needs, like what if the person doesn't accept them? What if this is like a big one when we realize that we've been fawning or people pleasing in our behaviors? So it's like the first thing that comes up is fear because it's like if I assert myself and I say that I need this space every morning to meditate, for example, how is the partner going to react? Are they going to take it as I'm taking something away from them? And it's very difficult to break through that barrier, you know? So I think it has been, even when you mentioned Vedic, I think in yoga we say yin and yang, right? It's like the soft and then the hard. And so we really do segment everything that way, whether we realize it or not, through all different cultures. But even in US culture is like, I believe this is why we see as much divorce as we see over age 50, more than over a third of divorces are happening after age 50. And for those over 65, the number has tripled in the last decade. So why is that? It's because people in this generation have a unique situation in that they really have one foot in a very archaic belief about what they should be. And through the course of our lives, we watch so much change every decade. not that it doesn't happen at other times in history, but we're literally squaring off with either full-on accepting patriarchy and here take all my rights or I'm taking them back and you know this is where sometimes partners are like they wake up and they're in full-blown imposter syndrome because they're like I want to do these things and I don't even know how to articulate that to you and if I do I will sometimes be rejected and and they have to be imagine the strength to first of all have that awareness secondly articulate it with all the fear that comes up and then third go ahead and live it. I have been maybe dependent on my partner's income I've been dependent on their support and if I assert who I really am I've got to really tamp down that fear and accept that they might not like me anymore. And I have to be okay with that. So talk about, you know, having the layers that we deal with when trying to really pick apart imposter syndrome. So for most people, it'll be one little thing. And then it's like you start pulling that thread and it's like, oh, and that's where some people will just stop and say, I can't, I can't do that. Like they become so overwhelmed with fear because guess what? It's transformative. It is literally like, do you want the life that you have, which is keeping you stuck in these roles that are not you? Or are you ready to face those fears and have some structure to recreate yourself And I think that is why there is so much separation happening, particularly in those age groups, which is my kind of my target audience, because I can so, I can see it. And it's like, oh, yes, um, let me, you know, let me show you a way where we can get into this and we don't have to talk about all of what happened or all this time. We don't have to. Consciously, we just have to find a piece of it, pull that emotion in, that main emotion, and just try to create some space in you to see that you have everything that you need. You've always had everything that you need, but you have allowed these external circumstances to keep you stuck in that fear pattern.

Jeffrey Besecker: That light inside is always shining bright. Sometimes we feel like it dims a little. I'd like to take a moment to highlight three key points if we might here today. Leaving our listeners with these three insights as we move forward, the polarization of either female or male energies can influence ego constructs that shape our identities and associations in these three key ways for our notes today. We're all taking notes, right? By reinforcing gender-related societal norms, our expectations, and our roles within those expectations and norms, potentially limiting individual self-expression and interpersonal dynamics, how are we relating and forming associations to things? In this regard, Dee, do you feel these gender-based polarizations often color or filter how we perceive our identity in a way that significantly influences the potential for imposter syndrome to arise, and how?

Dee Miceli: Yeah I mean absolutely I mean it's it is part of how we constructed ourselves you know and I'll kind of refer a little bit to the family systems therapy model of those parts from zero to seven will just focus on that real intense period of emotional learning. I look at them as you know some people say shadow parts, fragments, They are different parts of us with different operating theories and systems, and they're all trying to get our attention. And so it's amazing that we can function, to be honest, because we're trying to move forward and say, you know, I've heard a lot of women say this. I want a more reciprocal relationship, right? I want to feel more equal. I don't want to feel like I'm the cook and the housekeeper, and I have to have a job, and rushing woman syndrome, right? That whole idea that you can have it all, but you gotta do it all. And so for women, that is a recipe for breakdown. And so Dr. Libby Weaver, she wrote that book and it's a fantastic book, but it talks about how we're going to end up on a cycle of burnout. We're going to kind of activate all of those negative habits that are stuck in our subconscious. Maybe we learned as a youngster that comfort eating was a good thing. If you were sad or crying, you got offered food. So whatever those things were that were created in that time are gonna come in. And so when we look at that we have all these parts of us that haven't really learned, as I mentioned, your conscious mind is not aware of what is programming and what is a goal that you just set on Tuesday. It's not aware of the difference. So here we are trying to go out and be our enlightened selves, right? Whether it's through whatever type of inner work that we're doing. And we've got a million parts trying to get our attention. And so it's hard to be consistent in our approach. We get attracted to a person or an offer or whatever it is. And then there's all those parts going, are you sure that's going to take a lot of your time? Maybe you should make dinner for her and, you know, show her your cooking skill. Wait a minute. I don't want to be the cook. You know, it's just like there is such a noise going on. And so to me, the whole basis of this family systems therapy, IFS is based on parts. And if we cannot get those parts into alignment with each other, we're never going to like completely get rid of our memories. It's not about that, but it's to say, I don't need to take care of someone to the level of like, I'm taking care of an infant or I'm taking care of a child. Like I have to do all of their laundry and feed them at every meal and all of that. If that's the way we were raised, which just a funny example, like I used to joke around that my mom, like our dirty clothes didn't hit the floor and they were washed and back in the drawer. That's the kind of household she was raised in and I was raised in. And so it was like a thing that you did as a wife and a mother, it was like, take care of all of these things. So, you know, when we look at how the self is developed, if those things aren't brought up and realized it becomes very difficult to you know have your actions and your behaviors in life be based on what it is you really want right like the woman who wants the reciprocal relationship who wants a more equal kind of partnership is going to have just mixed signals going on in her actions you know, she likes someone, she's doing more of the things that show parts of herself that can be taken in a very normal way, but maybe in her mind she's starting to feel like, oh my gosh, I'm doing too much, you know, is this something I want to keep doing? It becomes like very confused and so that's where imposter syndrome is just going to really take over unless those essentially fears, it's some version of fear, but when we're operating out of fear, it becomes very difficult to really be able to have that presence of mind to say, you know what, I think this isn't a good situation for me.

Jeffrey Besecker: That's a great way to illustrate how those scripts or constructs can become stored automatic patterns of thought and behavior and how becoming construct aware in our ego development allows us to discern and form a new view of those perspectives, increasing our capacity to process and internalize complex social and personal experiences. We know Our day-to-day experiences can be very complex, and sometimes we take those very personal. From that perspective, let's reinforce the idea of perspective today. We often, I feel, struggle to form that healthy sense of psychological distance or mental and emotional space to differentiate and process between what's going on within ourselves and the various aspects of our experiences with others. in a way that allows for perspective, objectivity, and emotional regulation or emotional modulation to step in. In that regard, D, can you elaborate on the concept of self-questioning and its role in achieving a more empowered perspective of psychological distance and self-actualization?

Dee Miceli: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think to pick up on the thread, you know, when we have those sort of programs of limitation, disempowerment, self-sabotage that are so ready to jump up, it is hard not to take things personally, which I think if we look at the rise of triggering, that is a lot of how people over personalize things are happening. It's like, oh, well, you're showing this example and it hurts my feelings or we're going to take down a monument because, you know, all of that kind of stuff. It's like, wait a second, this is not really about you. And so when, to me, that is a sign that collectively and individually we're overwrought with these subconscious patterns. You know, we're all in some sense experiencing an imposter syndrome because we're so easily triggered. And so the self-questioning is helpful in just like as in meditation, right? We're trying to increase self-awareness. So I tell people this, look, if meditation doesn't rock your boat, you know, try listening to a sound, try just listening to some lovely piece of music, letting it wash over you. But self-questioning, if people are willing to do it, whether they write it down or not, not, but there is some power in writing it down because you are visioning something, right? You're first of all trying to know how you really feel about something and so self-questioning gets you to uncover what's the sticking point. I'll even do guided meditations and I'll say, you know, focus on your body, take a few breaths and focus like is there a tightness somewhere in your body and 99% of the time women can say to me, oh yeah, it's right here, and I have trouble saying my truth. And I have this sticky feeling or I feel like coughing in my throat. Just even the beginning to journal and beginning to slow themselves down, they can notice where it's stuck in their body. Some will feel it like in the upper part of their gut, right? Their solar plexus. So there's all of these ways that our bodies can even tell us. And it's that slowing down, which is of course, always the goal with meditation or even journaling is slowing down enough to notice where is this sitting in me? Pay attention over here. You're stuck in saying your truth or you're stuck in manifesting what you really want. So let's vision like if you could have what you want in your life, what would that look like? And when people are given permission to do that and they're in a calm state, their life, what they envision is nothing like the life that they're leading. And boom, you know, there you go. It becomes really clear that there have been some parts that work here very busily. working to get their own needs met, those resistances from youth or shadow parts as younger parts. They're all operating based on a long, long time ago. And if you just take a little bit of time to self reflect, whether it's what is your dream life or what is your body saying to you, depending on the person and what speaks to them, There are a number of different ways that journaling can be like opening the can of worms, so to speak, but giving you that real sticky point to begin that subconscious healing gives you the space for that other perspective. I've had people sit there and, you know, their eyes are typically closed. They're relaxing and I can see their energy completely shift when they're envisioning the dream life or the dream, whatever the situation is that they want to be traveling or whatever, living somewhere different. It's like this smile comes over their whole body because they've moved aside for a minute and they've changed their perspective by this simple act of self-questioning.

Jeffrey Besecker: So often when we're stuck or fused with those trigger points, those emotional trigger points, we often only look at that from the perspective of being stuck in our mind. You know, we only look at that from the perspective of that being a battle with our thoughts. Yet that act, our total emotional processing, is a very somatically embodied process calling into play nearly every system or process throughout our body. I came across some great data, some research, as we looked at ego for this episode here and also for some future upcoming episodes. That is currently looking at how the ego response is now starting to be explored as originating in the heart. We hear so much throughout our common vernacular about being heart-centered, and now we're finding new evidence or new observations that point to the heart first being a source of an ego trigger or ego filter. as we move into heart rate variance and we experience fluctuations in our somatic experience via the heart, setting off all of those other embodied emotional interactions. I just want to earmark that today because I feel this is a good space to interject it as we move forward and build some additional episodes to look at how that comes into play soon. Looking at that idea of cognitive fusion, you've mentioned how we sometimes get stuck with those concepts. Fusion being the phenomena where individuals become entangled or overly identified with their thoughts or feelings or emotions or interactions, making it challenging to separate their thinking from their self-concept and emotions. Can you elaborate from your perspective, Dee, on the ways we tend to experience cognitive fusion and how does it affect our ability to engage in more effective ego development specifically?

Dee Miceli: Yeah, so one of the ways when I do my groups, I like to begin with this concept that we are not our thoughts, because we so overly identify with our thoughts that sometimes we don't realize that we are not fused with our thoughts, their thoughts, they are changeable. And we are separate from them. I think it was, you know, a lot of people have famous people have quoted saying that but I think Eckhart Tolle starts a book that way and you know with cognitive fusion again I think it's used a lot in acceptance and commitment therapy so it is again psychological but it is about being stuck in those thinking patterns it carries into our energy you know I mean going back to the 60s right it was Dr. Bruce Lipton that said our cells have consciousness like our cells every single one of them have a consciousness so if you believe that you are an energy energetic body and an energetic being then you sometimes can get that and I think that's maybe where this heart concept comes in is that what you feel is most present for you right now is where people get stuck the scarcity I need more money or I do now want a relationship or I think scarcity mindset is a good example. The more I keep focusing on what I don't have, the more I have what I don't want. So it becomes that repetitive thinking, that anxiety based from an outside perspective and anxiety based. But I think that when I think of cognitive fusion, and maybe I'm interpreting this through my own lens, I think of the diffusion. I think of how do we diffuse that so that A, we don't take everything so personally and B, we can connect with where we're feeling this in our body because that is a clear sign that there's something stuck. You know, a lot of people have a practice where they get in touch with their heart to do meditation, right? There's the Heart Math Institute, there's so much work and study around using the heart in a positive way. When you look at where the world is today, there's a lot of fear and there are a lot of broken hearts. There's a lot of loss and there's a lot of heart spaces that have a lot of grief and difficulty. So I look at it as, you know, how can we help people diffuse that so it doesn't become like what they're stuck on, right? You know, the grief process, it has seven stages. I mean that's another psychological construct but unless we help people to get mindful and whether it's you know you talk about heart centering or using breath or guided meditation or sound healing whatever the case may be if we don't acknowledge what's in our heart space what's in our most present emotion then we can't get into that observation mode with it. And that's where we overtake everything overly personally triggerable, all of those things. So I think, you know, it's about for me when I'm working one-on-one or with a group, it's about getting in touch with it just enough to see it, just pull up a little corner of it. and not fall into the rabbit hole of reliving it, not fall into the rabbit hole of, you know, remembering every second. My sister just lost a dog of 15 years and, you know, she keeps reliving the last two weeks. And I'm like, I understand, but like, how can you memorialize her? And how can you move to the next level and put it into your art? And moving past it requires us to not go too far down the rabbit hole and still hold on to the positive things and remove that stuck feeling. So that's where diffusing the intensity without going too consciously deep into it is really, it's quite fascinating to see that we have QEEG studies that show the brain changes from hearing just that statement. I am able to process my grief with more grace and ease. You know, whatever the person needs at that moment, and I often engage them in creating that statement. Using I am is one of the most powerful subconscious tools, right? I think Joseph Murphy was the first one to write that in his book. is when you have an I am statement and you commit to that, whether it's in your meditation or your journaling, you're going to change your brain and the way that you perceive things. But you have to be willing to let go of that storyline that is the thing that gets us stuck. and it gets stuck in that repetitive thinking. And until you are ready to say, I want to heal from this and not let it be the only thing that you focus on, then growth can begin to occur. So yeah, I kind of, I know I dove off there into diffusing, but it's a body mind, spirit thing with me. And that's why I call it soul alignment, because we're really trying to align those parts of our body. You know, when we have those repetitive thoughts, we're not just feeling anxious. Our vagus nerve is activated, our amygdalas firing, our reptilian brain becomes in charge. And most of us aren't going to make the decisions that are aligned with our highest good at that moment.

Jeffrey Besecker: So often we're so fused with those ideas and experiences, stuffing them down and stuffing them down emotionally until they build up and they build up and they explode. We have those eruptive outbursts that disrupt everything. I love how you brought that idea of diffusion in. We defuse that ticking time bomb by simply working through that process. Looking at that idea of emotional fusion and how that contributes to the six factors that shape our subconscious scripts, including rules, reasons, judgments, the past, future, and self, are there key ways, Dee, that these six factors surface as either a subconscious or unconscious pattern?

Dee Miceli: Yeah, the six factors, I think to go back for our listeners, the conscious mind remembers the rational, the creative, the linear, you know, the I'm going to get stuff done and the driven behaviors and the subconscious is the one that is the autopilot, right? So when we look at these six factors, I mean, they can play out in all of these different ways. You know, our beliefs, our emotions, our emotional patterns, the ability to have and set boundaries, all of it is impacted in all the various parts of our lives. again is going back to understanding that if we are doing things like breathing, driving, riding a bike, like those are things that we can do without much conscious thought, right? But if we want to start changing our lives and we want to start changing our reactions, our storylines, like the repetitive thoughts that are getting us the same result over and over again, Those pre-programmed memories, they've created self-judgment, they've created beliefs that really aren't in alignment with who we want to be. So being able to get those off of autopilot requires that self-awareness, you know. I like to go to examples that I actually learned working with kids based on like I got to a point where it didn't matter if a student was special education. I figured out what was making them tick, what makes them happy, what triggers them. How could I show them that there is another way to be and that when they're off alone, I'm not standing over their shoulder, they have a plan. So they come into a situation, they could be triggered by something they saw. Somebody said something, somebody said something maybe inappropriate. How can they choose, how can they find a new program? How can they diffuse that so they don't allow the triggering to become who they are? And so I would teach them, I would find a calming or soothing behavior that would fit them. A lot of times it was a breath. And depending on their age, sometimes it was removing themselves from the situation, right? But having the ability as a young person to realize I can change my reaction. If I can teach that to a first grader or a third grader, then surely we as adults can learn that we cannot take things so personal. right? Because you know, some of the students I had were multiple mental disabilities, right? Multiple labels, but they could literally without any seemingly without any prompting, just go and punch someone in the face. So I need to get those behaviors under hand. But what I learned through that is just a simple pause, a turnaround, uh, get a bathroom pass, walk around the building. And some of them, I had specific breaths. Take this sign, we're going to put it right by your desk. It's going to be a picture of your favorite thing happening. You're going to look at that and be reminded I have step one, step two, step three. Breathe in, hold it. breathe out, you know, whatever the particular situation was. For a lot of them, it was calming. It was calming a triggered response that really like literally fired off that reptilian fight or flight response in their body. And later they'd be like, they couldn't even remember what triggered them. That's how automatic it was. So when, when I look at that and I say, surely we can find and slow ourselves down from that triggered response. to say there's another way for me to look at this. I can gain some space by looking at this and coming up with a different way.

Jeffrey Besecker: How are we doing on time? I've got an idea in mind today. I'd like to try to deviate today and see how comfortable you are with challenging your comfort zones. Let's try something new here today on the lightened side. I'd like to propose a little lightning fire round where we highlight exactly what each of these six factors are that influence subconscious scripts. and how we might pinpoint a specific example throughout our lives. I feel, in some regards, they come very intuitive to us in how we know and understand when these are starting to surface. So if you're up to that today, let's do it. I'd like to rise to a challenge. Yes. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to name the specific factor or aspect and give a little one-sentence description. So let's start off first by looking at rules, which are the associations, the scripts, and the narratives we create themselves. Rules-fused thinking is comprised of if-then, must, or should language. We think of all of those things that we should do and consist of the stories we've told ourselves about how we should think, feel, and behave. Lightning fire, what first comes to mind as an example of how this occurs in our lives.

Dee Miceli: I think what comes to mind is the shutting, you know, um, it's, it's a judgment, you know, it's a self judgment. I should do it this way or I should have done it this way. So it's a judgment and it's a, if I had done it, you know, if, if we're looking back at a situation where, Trying to replay it in our mind. It's like I should have done it this way and then it would have worked out So then, you know, we're judging we're shaming a way that that particular whatever the should is, you know, I should have Stated my needs more clearly, you know, or I should have said no and I said yes, I there's the people-pleasing right so totally activates that script because if I just said no and then I'm like damn you know I mean I said yes and I wanted to say no I'm just like oh I really wanted to go home and now I'm going to a bar you know or whatever the scenario and then it's like we're beating ourselves up because we went against our own needs in that case but why do we do it well because I should just go. My friends really want me to go. All of that, you know, if I don't go, they're going to say that I never want to do anything. You know, all of those scripts are just instantly coming up.

Jeffrey Besecker: Looking at number two, and I think kind of stepped into that water intuitively, looking at reasons or the cognitive fusion and the distortions themselves. Fusion, along with our reasons, consists of explanations we give to ourselves and others about why we are behaving in a certain way. Lightning fire. Can you give us a brief example?

Dee Miceli: Yeah, I mean, I actually to continue on the people pleasing here. So one of the things that happens when we begin to set boundaries. So let's use the same example with the friends. And, you know, if I start explaining, if let's say a new scenario, they ask me and I say, no, I promise myself I'm going home tonight. I have to finish this paper, blah, blah, blah. Then they go, right. So if I start explaining, if I start explaining all the reasons why I No, that is not. Now I've gone to, I'm going to throw logic at them instead of them just saying, you know what? No, uh, yeah, I'll join you another time. Have fun. But when we start to go to reasoning, we're throwing another rule out there. We're throwing another way to make ourselves feel better. And what we do is dilute the message, right? It's, the message is it's okay to say no the message is so what if they're gonna say things or whatever they're my friends you know if they love me they'll understand i'm doing this for me

Jeffrey Besecker: 3. Looking at judgments, which often serve as the heuristics or mental shortcuts we use. We consistently make judgments that affect our thinking, emotions, and behavior in ways, in many ways, and we tend to be judgmental about people, events, behaviors, and others. Lightning Fire. For example,

Dee Miceli: So I think as a woman, this is a really powerful one because we're all impacted by how we perceive ourselves to be seen, right? So every day when we wake up as women, we walk past a mirror and we're immediately judging. We're immediately being like, look at my hair today. Like immediately there is a judgment byline going on about like what I need to do before I go out. And you know, it's, it doesn't come from a place of like, I can just brush my teeth and get ready. No, it comes from a place of like, I have to look a certain way or I have to have a certain standard of external beauty to go out and meet the world, whether it's on the, on the screen or, or live. So there's an immediate, um, self judgment that, that I think clicks on as a woman. That's been lifelong, you know that that I definitely can relate to and many of us can relate to zero to seven and and even the adolescent years of being You know seeing back in my day the models were extremely thin So it was like, okay, you're not extremely thin. So what are we doing here? So I

Jeffrey Besecker: Moving on to number four, which is past being influenced by implicit memory and implicit bias. Fusion with past means staying stuck in the past and being unable to focus on the present moment. Lightning fire. Could you please give us an example today?

Dee Miceli: I'm going to go to the some of the challenge students that I had, you know, students who grew up in a situation where their siblings took a certain path even their parents, their grandparents. And so you could just see that it was much more powerful. Their past stories were generational. And so their behaviors clearly weren't in alignment with who they really were, but that it was what was expected of them to the point of like dressing a certain way, having a certain walk, having a certain swagger to be cool. And, but also to be long, that was how you belonged in that family. So very powerful. And to try to get a young person to go against that, when it is the method of being accepted and loved, a big realization of what I learned about gang culture, all the way down to kindergarten, first grade behavior of like carrying a certain color and things of that nature. So the past is very, very deeply embedded.

Jeffrey Besecker: Number five, looking at future, which is our projection and transference of thoughts, feelings and ideas of perspective on our future outlook. Fusion with future may include worrying over what might happen and can trigger anticipa. Let me get this right. Future. I'm going to try that again. Future. See, I've got lightning fire myself and just can my ass for messing this up today.

Dee Miceli: No, this is great.

Jeffrey Besecker: I love it. Fusion with future may include worrying over what might happen and can trigger anticipatory anxiety and anticipatory grief. We'll get to more on that later. Lightning Fire, could you please share an example with us today?

Dee Miceli: So, yeah, future projection, I mean, what comes up big for me is scarcity mindset. This is one of the most deeply embedded types of future projection that keeps people from uncovering, you know, the abundance that is really just it's available to them. But their body, their mind, their energy is worrying and projecting It hasn't happened so far. I can't figure this part out. I'm confused by it. Or, you know, you mentioned grief as well. You know, just again, focusing on that person, that animal, whatever, is just not there instead of focusing on the beautiful life that she had. And, you know, it becomes this transference and the projection It's all, we're all energy. So if you go back to that concept of all energy, if you are carrying it that heavy and that hard, it is going to be your state. You have to be willing to allow that little bit of space for the perspective to shift. And if your energy is so strong in that direction, there's no space for it.

Jeffrey Besecker: And finally, looking at number six, the almighty self. looking at ego and psyche development, governing self, governing my speaking to get self-governed thinking involves ideas about what kind of person you are. And we create our associations to this concept, both healthy and unhealthy, beneficial and adverse lightning fire around. Could you please share an example with us?

Dee Miceli: I think of which one to go with here. I'll use the healthy and unhealthy because that that really applies. So many of us, if we grew up in a family that had somewhat, you know, by by today's standards, unhealthy, you know, a lot of carbs, a lot of a lot of drinking, a lot of eating, a lot of, you know, maybe fun filled activities, but revolving around the eating and drinking is not sustainable if you want to be healthy over time. So when you have this self ego that equates having fun with those things can you get past that projected psyche that was created that said if I don't have those things I can't let loose and have fun or maybe there's a way to have both maybe there's a way to go to a beautiful place and select different things and have some moderation, right? There's a way to look at it where the almighty, you know, creation of that ego, that psyche that's so strong and is, you know, kind of turned on its head and saying, you know, it is not so black and white, it's not so everything or nothing. I had a client once who working with me on nutrition who, but I have five events this week that all have alcohol. Okay. Do you have to drink at every single one? Like, so you could clearly see like the psyche is if I don't participate in that, I will be judged. I will be, you know, uh, it will hurt my ego if I sit there and just say, Nope, not having any alcohol tonight. Give me a, you know, and so I literally have to work with them on creating some strategies So they can begin to first of all not do it because they clearly were in an automatic ego mode that I have to fit in by doing what everyone else is doing. And then I still had some people who their psyche was such, it's not anyone's business whether I eat or drink. Now there was a strong sense of independence that they were able to nurture. So, you know, I think that, uh, that that's a really good juxtaposition because that often was the block that people would have. It wasn't so much they couldn't do it. It was how are other people going to judge me for doing it? Oh, you're so well, here she goes again. The rolling of the eyes when you ask for no bread on your burger or whatever, you know, and they just their their sense of self was like tested by that.

Jeffrey Besecker: I want to thank you for being such a good sport and indulging me in this challenge today, Denise. I hope that illustrated how those six core aspects and questions can open up so much knowledge in a very simple way about how we form those subconscious scripts. I feel you did such a brilliant job today in portraying that for us. Without diving too far away from our interview concept today, I have two more questions I'd like to lean back into here before we close. Okay. Can you discuss the impact of selective reinforcement on negative self-talk in our subconscious scripts now that we've seen some of the ways that we can negatively reinforce our beliefs and thought patterns?

Dee Miceli: Yeah so this always gets me into thinking associative and dissociative so you know again being a psychological construct it assumes selective reinforcement that we can select what we respond to or not right it kind of as a concept presumes that we can just make that selection but what's going on in our subconscious mind is these associative and dissociative processes right so When we have an association with a negative reinforcement to being our authentic selves, then we develop a people-pleasing behavior. So how can we more selectively reinforce the positive associations, right? And be able to look at situations without continuing to either dissociate from them and do something someone else wants, right? Become the imposter or have a realization that we can make a different choice. And that's where kind of slowing down and, you know, doing those things to gain self-awareness. We can sometimes sometimes it's as simple as starting with, you don't need to give someone an answer right away. What a concept, right? A lot of women, we feel like we have to, yes, you know, and then two seconds later we're going, wait a minute, that's not something I want to do. So that's often a first step that I'll say is, Why don't you just say, I'll check on that and I'll get back to you. Give yourself some space to make a selection that is not just a reinforcement of the old. And maybe in that moment, maybe you're just starting to draw a boundary. You don't feel particularly strong in the wording. And honestly, that is part of the work is understanding that like anything, when you practice it, it will become easier. but if you don't have the words at the moment it's okay to say I'm choosing not to respond right now and then to do the work of breaking it down further and thinking about how to state a boundary easily simply and without making it a you know such a fearful experience so um I think this is what helps people to become more self-aware, to not take things as personally, to reduce the amount of triggering, right? Because one thing for certain is that this work is never done because life continues to go on and present us with new challenges. So it's not an idea of getting to some state of perfection, but it's to become more aware of who we authentically are So that we can make the choice to say, it's a conscious choice in my mind that when someone asked me to do something, I have to spend a little bit of work here, slowing myself down, checking in with myself, even to the point of like, am I just tired? And that part of that is the work of that self-awareness, being able to check in with the self and valuing the self enough, right? A lot of times it will come down to that is feeling that there is a negative self-worth from something that happened a long time ago, a sense of not being enough to warrant the checking in, to warrant a different selection you know and that's even deeper to me that would have to be addressed before someone could even say you know no in any scenario right sometimes the worst cases of imposter syndrome are rooted in a low self-esteem or self-worth. So selective reinforcement at that point just seems daunting. You know, so this is where the work is very nuanced and it starts really down at the level of who are you and what do you want in life? You know, and if someone comes to me and they're sad and they're down and they don't know who they are, then it's most likely rooted in that initial fear of being unconditionally loved that started so long ago. If they were taught that to be loved there has to be X, Y, and Z going on. That is one of the hardest things on the self-worth and then the ability to speak for the self. You know, that throat chakra is hurting. Sometimes people actually get physical ailments of the throat when they have been unable to voice that for so long.

Jeffrey Besecker: Lastly here today, during the various forms of anxiety that often arise throughout our day-to-day lives, we tend to engage in rumination, circular thinking, and repetitive thoughts. From that perspective, Dee, could you explain the role of circular thinking and emotional rumination in reinforcing our subconscious scripts?

Dee Miceli: Yeah I think the the biggest thing with uh to me is it's a form of anxiety which you know I think I mentioned this before but just to reiterate I feel that there's a continuum and most of us lean in one direction or the other and probably visit both during our lives but we're either stuck in being sad about the past or we're stuck in worrying or ruminating over something in the future that we think we can control, right? We can certainly have an outlook about it but a lot of this comes from the idea that we can completely control something in the future, you know, and so it really is something that it leads to that spiral, you know, I call it subconscious gone wild, it's it's a spiral, you know, so for whatever that person's deepest, um, rooted negative emotion is, whether it's fear, low self-worth, uh, not feeling loved, they're carrying that usually in their body. And so it's so easy to trip that wire and set that cycle going and it you know it really does take body-mind techniques at that point because simply saying you know we'll take a few breaths and and chill out you know that these are really kind of sticky cycles of thinking that will you know get in the way of somebody being fully present and if they're not uncovered and at least brought down in the intensity level, they can lead people to, you know, those negative habits that they don't want to have. You know, maybe it's an obsessive compulsive behavior or, you know, what I call micro addictions, you know, scrolling or, you know, whatever the case may be watching, you know, mindless TV or, you know, things where I've got, I am so overwhelmed by my overthinking that I need to escape the overthinking. So I think that that's where those diffusion techniques and really spending time before even getting into, you know, subconscious healing would be to teach some of these techniques and actually practice them. You know, and I mean, it doesn't take that long, like all the education, you know, folks say, you know, you do something for 21 days or whatever. I don't think it takes that long, to be honest. If you do something for seven days and you feel the benefit in your body, particularly if you have racing thoughts, you want more of it. And it's very powerful. The more intense yours is, the more powerful the effect of these practices are. So like alternate nostril breathing. I mean, some of these things now have studies behind them showing how many like heart rate variability going down, all of the indicators, hormones. all of these things shifting in the course of a 10, 15 minute, you know, or even just four cycles of alternate nostril breathing, calming that reptilian brain. So it is, you know, it's a conscious effort to, to commit to doing it, but the, the body, you know, the body gives the score, whatever that book was. It's true. If the body starts experiencing the benefit, it's something that you won't want to stop doing. So I think, yeah, I'll leave it there.

Jeffrey Besecker: I have to agree and add that we all find that pace in rhythm at our natural time. I'd also like to reinforce how we've mentioned several times today how that emotional diffusion plays a role in preventing those cognitive distortions or dissonance by helping us detach in a healthy way from those intense emotions. I know we just kind of touched on this a little bit. To wrap up today, Dee, what are some specific diffusion techniques we can employ to counteract the influence of our negative thought patterns and avert or helpfully reframe some of these subconscious grips?

Dee Miceli: So I mentioned one with the alternate nostril breathing. It's super powerful. But even just an even breath of breathing in for three and breathing out for three has an equalizing effect on the nervous system. And then if you if a person doesn't have too much, if it's not an anxious person, even the holding of three. So it's like a, you know, three times four. But basically, the heart rate will slow. You know, all of the systems just begin to come down and you're able to be more open. So those will be my two most powerful ones with or without the holds. And then the other thing is just asking, you know, I was, I was always into like finding the root of things. And so whether you do this in a journal or you just use the questioning, um, asking why, why, like walking by the mirror, my hair's a mess. Why do I need to brush it right now? Keep asking why Because you're going to get to the motivation of where that's coming from. Does it really matter if I'm just going for a walk around the block? What my darn hair looks like? You know, you get to the point of like, OK, so I'm placing value on myself based on somebody walking their dog and seeing my hair. OK. Well, reality check there. So by simply asking why and why persistently, I say why at least three times, but as many times as gets you to what's the motivation here? Is it coming from something I truly believe in or is it coming from some external judgment or value? that says, if I don't do this, I am not as valued. Where's the bottom? Yeah, it points to how much we care about what others, how others see us and perceive us, you know?

Jeffrey Besecker: And that tees us up so nicely for a conversation I'm having tomorrow, looking at that role of cognitive reappraisal and how that helps us to reframe these subconscious scripts. I want to thank you wholeheartedly today, Dee, for having that internal fortitude and confidence to be so open and vulnerable as we dove into that unexpected lightning round. I think that was a fun new ripple today, and I think that was such a great opportunity to not only share the depth of your knowledge, but to also give us some quick, easy methods to question that why. I thank you for shining so bright today. Namaste. The light in me full-heartedly acknowledges that light in you today.

Dee Miceli: You're so welcome. Thank you. I really enjoyed that. Very fun.

Jeffrey Besecker: Likewise. This truly has been a fun conversation and so, so very insightful today. Thank you, dear. I truly appreciate you.

Dee Miceli: All right. Take care. Great to see you.

Jeffrey Besecker: Bye!