Reclaiming Menopause: Breaking Free from Stigma and Embracing Transformation

Jeffrey Besecker:
This is The Light Inside. I'm Jeffrey Besecker. Reclamation. What happens when we break free from the limiting belief systems that shape our understanding of menopause? And how might this help men like me better support their partners and loved ones throughout this arduous journey? For centuries, menopause has been shrouded in stigma. with cultural narratives reducing it to a symbol of decline rather than a natural and empowering transition. Women navigating perimenopause and menopause often find themselves wrestling with outdated societal scripts that dictate their self-worth. leaving them disconnected from reliable information and supportive frameworks. This episode of The Light Inside unlocks the primary and secondary patterns that dictate how subconscious conditioning, belief perseverance, and systemic biases shape the way women internalize and interpret their menopausal journey. By challenging these stigmas, we explore how shifting the narrative can empower women to reclaim their identity and embrace menopause as a time of profound transformation. Find out how when we return to The Light Inside. When it comes to mobile service providers, many of the big-name networks leave a bad taste in your mouth, with their high-rate plans, extra fees, and hidden costs or expenses. Mint Mobile is a new flavor of mobile network service, sharing all the same reliable features of the big-name brands, yet at a fraction of the cost. I recently made the change to Mint Mobile, and I can't believe the monthly savings, allowing me to put more money in my pocket for all of the things which truly light me up inside. Making the switch to Mint Mobile is easy. Hosted on the T-Mobile 5G network, Mint gives you premium wireless service on the nation's largest 5G network with bulk savings on flexible plan options. Mint offers three, six, and 12-month plans, and the more months you buy, the more you save. Plus, you can keep your current number or change to a new one if you like, and all of your contacts, apps, and photos will seamlessly and effortlessly follow you to your new low-cost Mint provider. Did I mention the best part? You keep more money in your pocket and with Mint's referral plan, you can rescue more friends from big wireless bills while earning up to $90 for each referral. Visit our affiliate link at www.thelightinside.site forward slash sponsors for additional mobile savings or activate your plan in minutes with the Mint mobile app.

In this episode of The Light Inside, we're joined by Amita Sharma to explore the pervasive stigma surrounding menopause and its deep roots in cultural narratives, gender norms, and systemic biases. Together, we examine how subconscious patterns like imposter syndrome, belief perseverance, and emotional hypervigilance contribute to identity fragmentation and distress during this formative life phase. By integrating shadow work, cognitive reappraisal, and somatic practices, This conversation uncovers ways to reframe menopause as a period of empowerment and renewal, offering insights into reclaiming identity and fostering resilience amidst societal pressures. So Amita, thanks for joining us today. I'm excited to explore the role identity concepts and social stigma play when influencing the perception of a woman's journey through menopausal stages of life.

Amita Sharma: Thank you so much. You correctly phrased the term social stigma and the identity a woman can go through. And we can go deep into these discussions and what a woman feeds when she's going through this whole journey that starts probably in her 40s to the rest of her life, right?

Jeffrey Besecker: Let's start today by looking at your background as a holistic coach and how that's influenced your perception of guiding others through this phase of life.

Amita Sharma: First disclaimer, I am not a medical or a holistic professional. I was working in a high tech for the last 20 plus years. And my journey started exactly the same way I started getting petty menopause symptoms in my early 40s. And the same thing, the stigma, the identity, all those things that I personally went through, I thought the stigma attached to it, social stigma, and never opened up from a communication point of view. I always felt the identity crisis in the sense that, oh, what if I tell other people? What will they think of me? All those things that I personally went through and I thought that this is not right. And that's kind of my story that has led me into going deeper. into this whole stage of life where women should be reinventing themselves rather than feeling like slipping it under the rug and feeling like, oh my God, I have low self-esteem, low self-worth, all those things. So that's sort of my story. I went through exactly what you described. I decided to come out of it and help others.

Jeffrey Besecker: Navigating social stigma and our responses to them requires a deeper understanding of the core issues driving these responses, beginning with the primary and secondary patterns that reinforce them. Many stigmas stem from early childhood life conditioning and cultural scripts that prioritize external success over our inherent worth. or a woman's inherent worth in this case. It's harder for me to frame that from a perspective today because it's not an experience I directly hold. But from that regard, from your perspective, what are the primary subconscious patterns driving menopause related to stigma and how do they shape self-perception?

Amita Sharma: So women, when they are growing up in childhood, you talked about the childhood experiences are generally majority of the cultures are sort of like women are breeders, right? Women are caretakers. I mean, that is the perception. It's changing now. But if you look at even a decade back or a couple of decades back, That is how women have been raised in most of the cultures and also kind of keeping it inside, not not voicing their opinion. I'm not talking in today's day and age. I'm talking a couple of decades back, right, or a decade back. So when you raise when you have been raised like this in a cultural setup and women are sort of like the secondary to, you know, they're not the bread earners, but they are the breeders. And then they learn to take everything inside, not bring it out. And that's what is apparent in so many cultures, even in today's day and age that we see, you know, some of the cultures, you know, in Muslim cultures or some of the other cultures that the women are still struggling to have that identity coming in. Right. And when the now fast forward, when this phase is coming, where things are happening, the fluctuation, the hormone fluctuation happening, their body is changing. They just are filled with sometimes the stigma gets attached because now they are no longer the breeders. Now they cannot be, you know, the reproductive cycle is finishing and so are their physical looks and that has given so much importance in the history for a woman. And as a woman, you feel less feminine and at the same time, You know, your kids are probably going out of your nest, so you don't have that family sort of like a circle that was safe, that was surrounding you, or you had a role to play. And if you're working, then it's possible that the, you know, age discrimination or this whole pedi-menopause journey is also impacting. So all these external factors start happening. to a woman's life and she's not able to express herself because of the fact that the way the cultural impact has happened to her, right, the way she has been raised. So it absolutely has a lot of impact on how women have been raised to how they behave when the time comes for them to say what's happening in their lives.

Jeffrey Besecker: In that regard, as we each transition through life, we're playing many roles. We often look at that through that filtered lens. You know, they're merely just a role we're playing. They're just an aspect of life we're living out. At one phase, I'm a mother. At another phase, you know, I'm moving past that and leaning into career. Even throughout our normal evolution, we alter throughout those roles. From that aspect, how do we maintain that healthy objective balance to say, yes, at this phase, I am a breeder. You know, I am basically playing out that role of breeding children and bringing them into the world. We've made that choice. Hopefully it's been a conscious choice and not an oopsie choice. I'm going to frame it in that way. An oopsie choice or that unexpected choice. How do we effectively navigate those transitions, even through the day-to-day basis?

Amita Sharma: Yeah, because absolutely, you're right. We are all playing a different role, right? For women, we're talking about women here. You know, women play the role of a mother, a breeder, and then the kids are growing up. Now, at this transition, what we are talking about is she's no longer a breeder and she's probably no longer a day-to-day mom because the kids are moving out, right? So think about that. So now there's a void, there's an empty nest syndrome, so to speak, in her life. And at the same time, she now starts experiencing all these strange symptoms, which probably she doesn't have an answer because she's not aware because of the stigma attached and the taboo attached to this topic of the stage of life. So so there's a lot of thing in subconsciously that that's probably going on in a woman's mind, that she's not able to bring it out openly with her partner, with her family, with her community, because the fact is that she does not understand herself. The pediment of a journey can last for a decade. But could you know that that happened to me for years and years? I was suffering silence and I did not talk it openly. So how do you bring it out? Right. For women to say it out loud. I mean, that's really what we are talking about is that it has to come out from the woman. Nobody else can help. She needs to find that from inside that the strength to or, you know, however you want to say it, to seek help, to embrace the new changes that's happening in her physical body, mind as well as social, everything, embrace that change. and incorporate some of the other things so that she can navigate this transition. She has to make changes. There is no other way. Change is constant. We know that. Like you said, we are all taking roles in different stages of our life. And this is a role for a woman to really take care of herself, which she is not accustomed to. I should say that. Right? A role of self-love, a role of self-worth, a role of self-care. Not that she has never done it. She has done caring for others more than herself. Now the role is if she doesn't do that for herself, it can lead to chronic conditions as she gets older. And we know that. We have so much data on osteoporosis, on heart condition, on diabetes. So this role that she's playing, I want to emphasize the fact that women have to reinvent themselves. Women have to come out and express themselves. And how do we do that?

Jeffrey Besecker: From that perspective, we spoke earlier in our pre-call discussion about how my wife has been going through this 10-year, decade-long journey through both perimenopause and menopausal phases. As a man, I have to admittedly say it's hard to understand how to value and support that. how to be empathetic for a woman because it's not a direct experience we're going through. So we're merely projecting our assumptions. It's hard to understand the depth of that when a woman's losing sleep, when those emotional and hormonal changes happen that are seemingly unexplainable to them, you know, having witnessed that through her eyes and her filters. That's very impactful to me as a conscious aware man, now that, wow, how do you assimilate this turmoil and chaos that's happening for 10 years in this woman's life that you love and care for? It's unfathomable as a man.

Amita Sharma: Yeah, it's not acceptable for her. It's not acceptable for her to go through for a decade of so much suffering and in silence. I mean, she's trying to not bother you or the family. Right. And she's literally inside. She is kind of taking it all in. And that's what most of the women do, irrespective of the culture. That's how we've been raised.

Jeffrey Besecker: That's how most of us go through life is internalizing those experiences.

Amita Sharma: Yeah. So she, so, you know, more than likely, I mean, she's been going through some hormonal imbalance in her body and she needs to learn to balance those hormones and bring it out in the sense that she needs to seek help because typically, yes, perimenopause hormonal fluctuations are happening. I'm sharing all this data because I have interviewed about 3000, 4000 holistic experts So, yes, absolutely peri-menopause. I went through that. I couldn't sleep in the morning. I'm completely, you know, groggy. My brain is completely cuckoo and going mood swings. And then the heart flashes, all these things. You are not functional. You cannot function during the day. But the underlying thing, when you look through the science of it, as you are a scientist, is the inflammation that has built up in a woman's body over the years and years of all kinds of pesticides, wrong dietary habits, and all kinds of lifestyle habits, I should say that. So it's very important when women are going through this phase to really cleanse their system and make sure the hormonal fluctuations, even though it's going to continue to happen, but things that balance inside out, right? So for men also it's very important to understand the reason, the underlying reason why it is happening to women and how to support them because it can impact so many different things in a woman's life and in a couple's life for that matter because if she she's so completely not put together, the relationship also gets impacted. So it's important to understand the underlying reasons why it is happening to women and what can they do to help themselves is what exactly what I'm trying to say. And it's important for spouses and partners to understand that as well.

Jeffrey Besecker: from a male perspective and not to stigmatize guilt or shame my male counterparts out there. That's a big responsibility and role to step into yourself, not to take away power from our women audience members or diminish them and heighten that role. You know, I don't want to create our own stigmas and imbalance here. Yet, as men, it's a big role and responsibility to lovingly step into and shine.

Amita Sharma: Yes, absolutely. See, because men have to step up during this phase of a woman's death. It takes a lot of stepping up. It's a lot of stepping up, but you can't step up if you don't understand. Right. If men and women don't even understand why they're going through, what is happening? So I think the fundamentals using do it can be confusing, very confusing, very confusing. And there's so much information that's labeled. Right? Because you know why? I'll tell you. The reason is because over the years, this whole phase of the woman's life has been under the rug. We've established that not only from you and me as a normal citizens, but also coming from the community higher up from the medical community. They don't even know what perimenopause is. It happened to me. I went there and they gave me some kind of a strange anxiety, depression pills. And then when I've interviewed about 3,000, 4,000 experts, they told me we are not even taught about perimenopause in medical schools. And can you believe that? In only eight hours. Yes, I can. I was shocked. I've witnessed it. I know what perimenopause is. I mean, I'm like, oh my God. And because women are now suffering for decades, so many years, it's unacceptable. And they're only taught about menopause, and they spend eight hours and give a hormone replacement therapy. I mean, the research says, so much research says, and you know, I'm not an expert, but whatever I have done the research, there are so many lifestyle and dietary modifications that women can do during this phase of life to alleviate the symptoms, to manage their symptoms. And now this whole phase of a woman's life is also underfunded under research. Not much research is there because we as a community all over the world have not paid attention to beyond the reproductive years of a woman's life because of the breeding. Because we talked about the breeders, right? And then by the time women are senior, 65 plus, it's too late because the 25 year old window that she's supposed to really change, she doesn't, she's so muffled up, she's so confused. And suddenly around in mid 60s, she's got a chronic condition now, which is now lifelong until she, the end. So that's where all the confusion

Jeffrey Besecker: The inevitable end that sometimes seems like it's never going to come.

Amita Sharma: We talk about spending trillions of dollars in chronic conditions, but we are not really focusing on why the heck these chronic conditions are happening. The root cause, right? The root cause of chronic conditions, specifically for women, There's a lot of data that correlates of chronic condition for women to hormonal imbalance that's happening during this all years of her premenopausal, menopausal journey. So if we come back here and understand when she's still young, younger, I should say that 40 plus something and help her and during this phase of life, then when she comes there, it'd be. You know, I'm not saying everything will be amazing, but it will be easier because she understands what is happening in the body. And the same thing goes for men. If they understand what's happening to their spouses and partners, then it'll be easy to understand from a society point of view, the chronic conditions, why they're happening. So we have to come to, in your language, to really, you know, to the base, to the root cause. If we don't do that as a society, then again, we are in the same turmoil where we've been in confusion, turmoil and all those things.

Jeffrey Besecker: So we spoke about that role of stigmatized ageism and how media and societal norms often associate that with youth, creating those internalized biases about aging. From that perspective, Amita, how do you feel cultural conditioning perpetuates the narrative of menopause as a decline? rather than a phase of transformation or a phase of maybe even blooming into your essence as you age. That's a reframing there that might seem like a stretch, especially as a woman is struggling with some of these changes and in the midst of.

Amita Sharma: Yeah, cultural conditioning is absolutely, you know, is going to impact rather than blooming during these years. It's kind of a negative connotations during the menopause, because the menopause is typically considered, oh, my God, she must be at that age, you know, and the media has also perpetuated this whole connotation of, you know, the feminine qualities, I should say that. So I think Media has a role to play. Cultural conditioning has a role to play. And it is evident how different women coming from different cultural ethnicity experience the stage of life differently as well. Right. So. So, yes, just to give you an example from a cultural perspective and the age of a Latino American woman and a black American woman for menopause is younger as opposed to an average age of 51-52. So now there is a cultural angle right there. An Indian woman is in mid-40s, reaching menopause, which should not be normal because now you're depleting your hormones, the good hormones that you've had earlier than you were supposed to do, you know, around 51-52. So the cultural condition, not only the mental conditioning, but if you look at the research, like you are a psychologist, The reason how these women, especially in Muslim women and some of the other cultures, have been brought up, there could be the societal, the society pressure, right, could attribute to younger age of why women are reaching menopause younger than they're supposed to do. In fact, the cultural conditioning also talks about the early menopause. Early menopause, when I use the word, it's in late 30s, mid to late 30s. 8% of women coming from different cultural, like Muslim and Asian cultures, excluding the Japanese. I mean, I use the word Asian, South Asian culture, are reaching menopause in the late 30s, 8 to 10%. And if you say why, it's all because of the family structure and the stress that they have been put through to be who, you know, the breeders and all those things are not expressing. It's not normal. for them to reach menopause so early. So culture has a huge impact on women's the age when they're reaching the stage of life and also the symptoms that they are facing. It's very complicated, actually very complicated, right?

Jeffrey Besecker: As is most things with life, there is that element of complication that comes in and that element of depth. So often we form these expectations based on our personal experience. At this age, a person's supposed to have babies. At this age, they're supposedly engaging in a career. At this age, they're moving into, you know, grandmotherhood, dah, dah, dah, dah, you know? Seldom do we take into that consideration the breadth of expansive awareness of, Different cultures experience these things at different times. Different social and economic dynamics might dictate a different outcome for each individual. Economics playing a big role in that. Some families are more culturally aligned with having children earlier. Some families are more economically aligned with having children at different times. Yet, we overgeneralize that and form this stigmatized view of X, Y, and Z as the expectation.

Amita Sharma: So I think the economic part is so relevant. The reason is because now women are in workforce, right? More women in workforce than even a decade back or a couple of decades back. Right. So now that is great from an economic, financial independence. But on the other hand, it is bringing the stress higher for these women because now they have to do the work life balance. And women's body is sometimes not designed to take so much stress, financial stress.

SPEAKER_01: Yes.

Amita Sharma: Right. Because she has vagina. I mean, excuse my language, but that is the truth. And then she's still going through menstrual cycle on a monthly basis. And if there is an there's already a stress of going through the menstrual cycle and then the periods and all that. And if you add more stress on that for the financial, the economic, some of the women, the bodies, they cannot handle it. That is also a fact. So what do you do? So it's important for women to understand the fact that this added stress, how it can impair their, you know, other issue, other functions inside the body and how they learn to de-stress themselves and how they need to bring in the right kind of lifestyle even if they're working, they need to de-stress themselves. And that's what we don't understand, because as women, we are again, go, go, go. We're trying to become a super woman. That's again, the syndrome in this country, in the United States. We're all trying to become super moms and there's all this pressure, this like, you know, parenting. is competitive sports right now in the United States and in a lot of countries. So just to try to fit into the society, we try to become super mom and ignoring what is happening to us. And so there's a whole thing because we're trying to put so much stress on ourselves. And the stress, if you look at the science and the research, is going to have impact on all the things that we're discussing, you know, including the perimenopause, menopause and other things as well. I mean, we're just talking about the perimenopause part, but stress is definitely having a negative connotation to your gut health, you know, to your other health, bodily functions and everything.

Jeffrey Besecker: Throws everything out of whack from what I can guess from my observations, and I'll put it that way. That's all it is, is my assumptions. But also taking into consideration epigenetics and family history has a significant impact on individually. How our unique biosphere plays out as an individual, not necessarily mine as a male, again, but As a female, your unique biosphere might not be the same as somebody else. We tend to, again, overgeneralize that.

Amita Sharma: Absolutely. The genetics, we were talking about how different women coming from different cultural backgrounds experience the age of menopause is different. That is all genetics. Epigenetics also playing a role. The other thing is, you know, different cultural ethnicity also experienced as a woman, different type of symptoms, different type of symptoms. For example, African-American and Latin American women face more aggravated hot flashes than an average Caucasian woman. as an example. And that also goes back to their genetics and also goes back to their lifestyle if you look at it. Right. And the same thing is if you look at Japanese women, they do not experience heart flashes because of, again, the epigenetics and the lifestyle, because they have been on soup diet and soy-based diet, and their diet is more plant-based, not processed food. So there's, of course, the epigenetics part, but also the lifestyle part that comes into the play. Right. And so and then if you look at some of the Muslim women, they have more musculoskeletal pains, you know, during this phase and maybe some loss of libido. That is also a symptom. And that also is their sedentary lifestyle. and also the epigenetics in the sense, the kind of food that they have, a lot of red meats, you know, Muslim, we know that. So it has a direct correlation of the kind of the epigenetics as well as combined, fused with the lifestyle. These women have been kind of doing for the last so many years, the sedentary lifestyle we know in a lot of cultures has a direct impact on the, you know, in this case, perimenopause menopause, even in your overall well-being. Right. And most of these women coming from different cultures, as we are talking about, have sedentary lifestyle. They sleep during the, they take an afternoon nap. We know that. And that's all these things have a direct impact on specifically, we're talking about this phase of life because everything gets accumulated. Your epigenetics, your lifestyle, it kind of comes back and boom, now it's sort of like a volcano. that, you know, a fire it's hard to contain during this phase of life because now the hormone fluctuations bring it on and the stress bring it on and then all the things bring it on, right?

Jeffrey Besecker: So this is an aspect I want to throw in the ring from my own experience and through interaction with my wife and some of her peers. That idea of how women's cycles sync with each other, that cultural effect of, you know, how your hormonal cycles, your menstrual cycles tend to sync. You know, I'm speaking from a male perspective, so I'm probably really botching this. I'm going to admit that. But how does that come into play also? sync with each other meaning with her other girlfriends or something is that there's evidence out there how women and again i'm going on speculation here and my vague reference to it but how women's cycles will sink you know so To me, logically, if that comes into play, if that becomes a factor, then you're going to also form cultural narratives and cultural norms around when a woman's cycle is happening, when their natural childbearing age is happening, when their menstrual or when their menopausal cycle set in even, are going to be influenced by that.

Amita Sharma: Yeah, the culture has a lot of role to play from the age of a menstrual health that could start, right? That is for sure. Now, as far as but in today's day and age, there's a lot of evidence, there's a lot of research that's coming out that young girls as young as eight year old are starting their periods. when the when the age for an average woman is about 13. So and that is also playing a cultural you know, the culture has a lot of it because of the we see that younger kids are on a different kind of diet and they're probably not on the you know, on the natural plants and vegetables or whatever. So that culture is also making an impact of younger girls. getting the periods. Now, as far as the sinking from a cultural perspective, like I said, the age is getting shorter here when they get the menstrual cycle and the age is also getting younger when they're hitting the perimenopause menopause in their early thirties. So that culturally, yes, absolutely. In some of the cultures, these menstrual overall cycles are sinking, especially in Muslim cultures and some South Asian cultures. this is happening even in here, even in the United States, that age of it's shifting this way, what should have been a normal of a 13 to a 51 is shifting to eight years to, I don't know, like mid forties or early forties. So you were talking about it. So so this absolutely the cultural things as also now it's not very well understood. I must say that that why young girls are getting their periods at age eight versus age 13. And the only thing assumptions that I can make is because of the lifestyle, the dietary habits the mom has been. It's not just the kid. When the pregnant woman, there's a lot of data, by the way, a pregnant woman, when the baby comes out in the placenta there, they have recorded like more than 100 plus toxins. And in the placenta of a mom, can you believe it? A newborn baby is driving all the energy from the placenta of a mom. And when the newborn baby is born, she or he already has so many toxins inside the body because of the placenta. And that carries through your childhood. And that also God knows what other impacts, you know, in young girls, the menstrual health can get impacted. Right. So so the culture, absolutely. But also how the mom has been raised and the mom has been doing in the last few years, all these things come into play from a cultural point of view. And we know that, you know, like A few decades back, some of the Asian, South Asian countries, they would have plant-based, but now everything is so processed food that we are all taking. And then the food actually has laden with so many pesticides that we are all just been eating without paying attention. So it's just, yes, the culture is very important, but also along with our diet and all the lifestyle, it all comes together, in my humble opinion.

Jeffrey Besecker: So, I was kind of leading in that and pointing out the importance of being mindful of the role of culture, systemic influence, and societal influence. And being aware as human beings, male, female, whatever gender role you identify with, and I'm going to be very open and broad about that, of the role of diversity, equity, and inclusion. I am stirring the pot with that, and I am throwing my hat down very bluntly and succinctly with diversity, equity, and inclusion. If you are not diverse in your perspective of considering other human beings, you're going to be limited in your belief system. You're going to be limited in your connection. You're going to be limited in your interaction. If you do not have the equity to value and honor others with a broad open perspective, you're going to be limited. You're going to create your own disconnect. You're going to create your own divide. You're going to create your own roles and perceptions that limit your value. If you're not inclusive of consideration of others, of their experience, the breadth and difference of it, you're going to be limited. You're going to create that feedback and you're going to create the disconnect.

Amita Sharma: Absolutely. No, no, I couldn't agree more. I mean, we know that these departments are going away right now. The diversity, equity, and inclusive, they're slashing it away. But this is not the forum to discuss political decisions that are being made.

Jeffrey Besecker: Is it political or is it just basic humanism? No, but I think it should be basic humanism. It only becomes politicized when we inflame it as a politicized thing. It only becomes divisive when we embrace the divisiveness of it. Yet it's important to drive that stake in the sand and say, we need to have an awareness of those things. If we neglect them, we're automatically rejecting others.

Amita Sharma: But you don't need a big departments to it should be basic human. Right. That's my take on that.

Jeffrey Besecker: That's my only point I hope to take away today. And as a human really be considerate of those things.

Amita Sharma: Yeah. And we need to be considerate of what others, you know, society around us and be inclusive and equitable. And this falls back into the place of a woman's journey into this phase of her life at workplace. That is not the health equity is from my understanding is not being there. when the woman is out there in the workplace, right? So it has to be, and even at home, you know, maybe the family's not being inclusive of what her, because, not that they don't love her, because I think it also has a lack of knowledge. To me, it's not the family doesn't love her, it's the lack of knowledge and the shrouded mystery around this whole topic and slipping under the rug. I think that has more to do with it, at least in the family, you know, family environment, but at workplace, It has never been discussed that we should even support our workforce for women over 35. It's always been, you know, the the breeder again, the fertility part is. And it's great. You know, I am a mom. That's great that we are supporting women during the breeder phase. But what about the after the breeder's phase? And there is no inclusivity, to your point. and equity at workplaces as of now, as we stand today, for that matter, for women and men. Men also go through their, not menopause, but they are also going through their cycles of hormone, testosterone going down. And they also have different things. So there's no inclusivity for mid-age, I should say that, men and women to understand deeply what is going on in their physical, mental, all the landscape that they have been doing for the last so many years. So this should be inclusive for men as well. In my mind, mid-age men.

Jeffrey Besecker: So until we're willing to honor and respect those differences, we're creating indifference, by and large. I know that's very philosophically broad today, and I'm being very pointed, living in the moment. So let's reframe this a little bit. Let's move on. Let's address the emotional and somatic challenges associated with these life phases. Chronic stress, no matter what, is inevitably a part, from my observations again, of these cycles of perimenopause and menopause. psychological feedback loops, exasperating symptoms like fatigue, and mood swings. So Amita, from that perspective, how does this stress impact both the emotional and physical symptoms of menopause throughout all of its phases and cycles?

Amita Sharma: Oh, like I was talking about earlier, the stress, chronic stress is absolutely a constant in a woman's life, especially more apparent during the perimenopause menopause because she is baffled. Now, the chronic stress, we know that there is a vagus nerve that is connecting gut and brain connection, right? So if someone is in constant stress, the anxiety comes in and it also impairs, it can impact the gut health. And we know that most of the manifestation, the diseases sort of is manifesting from the gut issues, right? That is the physical part. Now, if the gut health is impaired, emotional part. So the emotions and the gut are all interconnected. It's where I was trying to draw this whole kind of comparison. And emotionally now, a woman can be in constant emotional sort of like impairment during this phase because now the gut health is not working properly and she's in chronic stress and all that can impact your personal relationships with your family. right, your physical well-being, your mental well-being, your social well-being, your spiritual well-being, all that can get, because we are a one human being and if your emotional well-being, if you're not digesting your emotions, I should say that, it is going to impact you, right? So there is a direct correlation of what you're talking about, the whole stage and the emotional wellness. And the emotional wellness is so huge for women that the data is talking about 50% of the women have anxiety or depression issues during going through this phase. And in fact, quite a few of them have even suicidal thoughts, the emotional wellness. The other emotional wellness data is that 60% of women who are going through divorce are in the perimenopause, menopause stage of their life, because the emotional part of this can be so exasperated by the lack of knowledge that they have. And sometimes it is too late. Right. So the emotional unwell or the emotional wellness can play a role, like I said earlier, in their relationships to a point that families, breakup of families can also happen because we are just holding inside everything and not bringing it out. We are not digesting our emotions the way we should as women. and not bringing it out and openly discussing the issues that are, you know, that are impacting not as a woman to me for physical mental wellness, but also to my partner and to my family. So emotional wellness is huge, huge in this phase of life. We only focus on the hot flashes and the mood swings, but in reality,

Jeffrey Besecker: We're saying, oh, my God, we're bringing that holistic perspective back that we're treating or managing the whole person.

Amita Sharma: And we are only focusing on you. And that's we are also got impacted by so much media that media talks about. Oh, my God, I'm having a hard life. Oh, my God. You know, they make it funny, which is just good in the sense that focus. Yeah. Yeah. But the other reinforcement that we should talk about is the emotional digesting of the emotions, which we really don't talk about and holding it inside. There's a lot of data, strange data that if you hold your emotions inside, it's going to, you know, transpire into some kind of a all kinds of conditions, you know, medical conditions, seriously. There's a, there's a research that talks about that. Now that has to be validated. I don't want to take claims into all that, but there's a, so all these things are interrelated and bringing a holistic approach to a man or a woman's wellness.

Jeffrey Besecker: Yeah, that falls back again on a male responsibility there or a partner responsibility. I know from my own experience, my wife expressing that there have been times where that emotion builds up, you know, that wanting to lash out that's kind of unregulated and misguided by the hormonal imbalance where you do have those mood swings and that need to feel like you have to suppress it. rather than speak life to it and work through it together. To manage the peace, you play the role of peacekeeper now because I have to push down all of these wildly misguided, quote unquote, emotions that are being prompted by that transition.

Amita Sharma: Yes, yes. So that's why it's important, because I know myself, you know, and I generally, if you met me a couple of decades back, was a very quiet person, not expressing my emotions, an average woman coming from a cultural, you know, manifestations of always giving back to the society and giving back to your family and all that. and come the perimenopause. And I don't know where these emotions came inside me. And I was like a inferno of spitting out whatever came in my mind without thinking it. Can you believe that? And it was good because my emotions are coming out and I could not lie. I could not stop myself. And suddenly all these things are just coming out of my mouth. And in a way, now I think about it, it was good all these buried emotions that I had for decades earlier in my previous, you know, four decades started coming out in my 40s. And I was myself shocked and amazed at how much I was holding it inside. Right? How many things one can hold it inside and never express for just the fact that, oh my God, I'm going to upset that person. That was inside me. I said, oh my God, I should not say that. I'm going to upset that person. And that's so common. And so many women I have interviewed, it's not I thought something was wrong with me when I interviewed over 4000 women. They said, no, it's a respectable culture. Of course, some cultures are more kind of apparent in some cultures, but majority of women doesn't matter which ethnicity. They all behave in the same way. They don't want to upset your wife. You know, she doesn't upset you.

Jeffrey Besecker: I'm, you know, I'm getting a little personal here, but that is probably that we all have that, hopefully, tendency to want to find that balance with others, find that emotionally harmonizing impact with each other.

Amita Sharma: Yeah, as women, I was trying to find that emotionally harmonizing impact with other individuals, because maybe I didn't get it when I was growing up as a child, you know, that that that emotion, the harmony with something, be feeling safe within And I'm trying, seeking it as an adult with other individuals, with other female friends or other people. And that's what I'm trying. If you look at the psychology in your language, I'm trying to please others all my life so that, you know, there's a harmony or some kind of a connection, emotional connection that I can make with the other person. And I'm trying to please that and I'm never expressing myself. Right. And that's wrong. I'm not being who I am all these years. And what I'm trying to say is this happens to a lot of women. I'm not the only crazy ones who thought like that. And there are a lot of women who try to create that whole impact because the way they've been raised, they always try to please others. That's how we have been in that, you know, that mental widening has been done for a lot of women. I was shocked. I thought I was the only crazy one.

Jeffrey Besecker: To me, it speaks to a conversation I had last week with another guest looking at the role of the nice guy syndrome in males. You know, there's a correlation there with that role of pleasing. You know, so often we have kind of a conflicted belief about people pleasing. You know, inherently, we all want to be valued, heard, seen, and pleasing in the regard that we experience that harmony. What often happens is that act of over-acquiescence, where we're overly pleasing and sacrificing our own needs. It's not that we're inherently giving up on being pleasing. We just sometimes are overly focused to the point that we discount our own needs and our own desires, our own emotional considerations, our own values.

Amita Sharma: Yes, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. We are really get so caught up in over pleasing that we are undermining our own beliefs sometimes. And we women do that more, I think, comparatively than men. because of their inherent nature of breeding and trying to caring and caring for other being a caretaker. And that is and I'm not saying just completely not go on the other side of the pendulum and be, you know, being not being respectful of other feelings. But at the same time, I think you need to draw some kind of a middle ground where you are expressing yourself as well and and then at the same time creating harmony with the other person now you are being true to yourself and true to others right and in this case we are always hiding behind a veil. right, so to speak, hiding behind a purdah, you know, or like, like, you know, build a lot of walls.

Jeffrey Besecker: Most of them, you know, are from internal perspective. We're creating that mirrored perspective. That's not to, again, marginalize or discount the reality that we do have the other end of that pendulum where there are those cultural expectations, there are those social imperatives or roles that we're assuming we have to play.

Amita Sharma: Yes, it can be challenging because now there is a social imperative. There is a fitting into the community wherever you are. You know, you cannot just go the pendulum on the other side. But I think there could be a simple striking a balance somewhere that where you also. Right. So that's what I think I'm emphasizing, the fact that they should not be such a wall, that you have a completely different world when you are interacting with the community outside. And inside, you are not being true to who you are. Right. And that's what I'm talking about. I think a lot of us as women, we do that irrespective of the culture. Maybe in some cultures it's more pronounced, but in majority of the women do that. And somehow we need to learn as women to strike the right balance. I mean, how to express yourself. at the same time, respecting the community where you are or respecting others and is still being heard. That's what I'm talking about. And I think we there's just a delicate balance that we have to learn. I know I had to learn that. I'm speaking out of my my personal experience. And the fact is, you know, I started voicing my opinion and a lot of my child. You were talking about the childhood people who knew me from childhood. They were very surprised. This is who you are now, you never said anything all these years. I'm like, I have no idea. It's just coming out, you know? So somehow you need to strike a balance of what your personality is, who you are as a human being, what your beliefs are and not hide them under a wall, under an internal wall. It's important.

Jeffrey Besecker: So in that regard, you feel we sometimes overgeneralize or downplay the complexity of these interactions, especially looking at menopause. We downplay how different each person's experience is. We downplay the importance of our own needs to the point where we overgeneralize that.

Amita Sharma: Yes, you're absolutely right. It is not one size fits all. We are all one. Everybody is different. Every person, every human being, every woman in this case is going through this experience in a different way. What I experienced is not necessarily true of another woman. So that's why we need a personalized approach and understanding, a deeper understanding of her cultural manifestations, like you talked about her emotional, her family, her lifestyle, her dietary, all these things come into play when we are trying to understand this whole phase of life of menopause, because now we are not breeder This is a whole change that's happening physically. We know that. But that's also manifesting in the emotional. And what I am going through is completely going to be different than any other woman go through. So that's why we need a holistic, personalized approach, not a compartmentalized, OK, you go to this doctor for this compartment and this doctor for this compartment. It's so important to encompass a holistic approach. and a personalized individualized approach for this phase of the woman's life more so.

Jeffrey Besecker: Do you feel from that perspective, we sometimes over personalize that to the point that we're fully internalizing everything and only basing that on our core internal experience rather than becoming open and vulnerable to outside feedback and input?

Amita Sharma: So I think, you know, this particular topic is so underfunded and under-researched that we haven't, you know, even begun to scratch the surface, in my humble opinion. So I think we are not really over kind of internalizing it at this time, maybe in due course, yes, because this topic still needs to be discussed. right, more openly, and it needs a lot of data points for us to draw any conclusions as to why few women are having, like we talked about, certain ethnicity and cultural, they are experiencing different symptoms, different ages, right, as opposed to some of the others. So I think this particular topic needs a lot more data points before we draw to any conclusion of internalizing or anything like that. I think it's still in its infancy as far as the work that we have to do.

Jeffrey Besecker: So from that regard, we often socially and societally tend to overgeneralize to the point where we don't consider that diversity of experience.

Amita Sharma: Yes, I agree that. Absolutely. So, so many pharmaceutical companies are now coming up with the drugs for to alleviate hot flashes, as an example. And that is a generalization, right? I'm going a little bit technical here with your comment on the generalization. And we say, oh, HRT, that's hormone replacement therapy, for example, can work on most of the women. Not true. It depends. Each woman who's going through her experience during this phase is going to be different in what can work on one woman. might not work on another. So we are overgeneralizing like a one single pill to my mind. What I'm trying to say is one single pill is not going to fix all women is what I'm trying to say. Yes. Right. Because because because It's not just the pill, it's the emotion, the social and the spiritual. I mean, it all encompasses everything. So if I start taking a pill for anxiety, as an example, it's not going to fix my relationship with my partner or something else. It might actually go down south now. I'm like, whatever. So, yes, we are overgeneralizing. everything. In this case, we're talking about menopause, that we think that a single pill is a fix, and that is not the case. We have to consider human beings as not just the physical, you know, the drugs. Just take a drug and you'll be fixed. We are you know, conditioned as a society that the drugs will fix everything. I mean, look at everything that's happening. Not that I want to go in that route, but weight loss, we take a drug and we fix ourselves. You know, the society is conditioned like that. But in this menopause phase, It is not true is what I'm trying to say. It's not just the physical, it's the emotional. We're talking about so much emotional wellness that is going along with that and your relationships, your society, your community, it's everything. And the pill alone is not sufficient.

Jeffrey Besecker: So speaking to that regard, how long from your research and experience does the average woman tend to stay in this window of experience between the onset of perimenopause and the conclusion of their menopausal phase?

Amita Sharma: So the research talks about anywhere from four to 10 years or maybe 15 years for some women. It's ridiculously long for women to go through this experience. for multiple years. Oh my God. I mean, it's shocking. Um, but I want to point this out that when a woman technically reaches the menopause menopause is when she hasn't had period for 12 consecutive months, she is menopause. and she is going to be menopausal for the rest of her life. Even after that, there has been studies and research talks about how she's still experiencing some of the other symptoms that she might not have felt during the early perimenopause stage of her life because Earlier, the hormone fluctuations are kind of like a roller coaster. Now the hormone fluctuations have kind of leveled out, but still the hormones itself have gone down. So now you are going to experience different type of issues. So that's what is generally happening that, okay, you're menopause and you're scar free. What I want to emphasize the fact is now your hormones are down permanently, right? permanently so now you have to actually take care of it more at the same time more because you don't want to fall into a chronic condition which could be permanent till the end of your life right so it's very important for us to understand that

Jeffrey Besecker: Thank you for offering that breadth of context there. That illustrates how my own assumptions and misgivings marginalized that as a moving out of that phase rather than the new reality. So thank you. Thank you so much for reframing that for me. That does bring so much insight to consider how it is such a transformative experience that becomes the new reality and the new norm.

Amita Sharma: Yes, it is the new reality, the new norm, and women and men should embrace it. You know, with the, like I said earlier, partners have to be in it as well for them to accept the new reality, the new me, the women is a new person inside out. And, you know, just to enjoy and embrace the new life that she has been given a new chance, a new, you know, rejuvenation is what I call it, and reimagining herself. This is the time for, you know, you've done your responsibilities, you've taken care of the kids, you've taken care of a lot of things. This is a time for you. to take care of yourself. You know, even if you look at the scriptures, right, old scriptures, they talk about four phases a person goes through, right? And this is sort of like the fourth phase of a woman's, a person's life, so to speak. I'm not taking, and they used to show in the movies, oh, the fourth phase of the woman, a person, they're going on a religious, you know, sort of like traveling and visiting all that.

Jeffrey Besecker: And that's there's a certain religious experience of saying, oh, God, this sucks.

Amita Sharma: Yes, absolutely. Yes, it is. Absolutely.

Jeffrey Besecker: I'm trying a little more in there. It may be very kind of slanted and kitschy, so.

Amita Sharma: No, no doubt about the day. The funny thing is, no, no, it's OK. The funny thing is, Brian Johnson, who was the CEO of Braintree, he's he's spending I mean, this is this is this is on the lighter side of one million dollars to stay to not age at all. I mean, just to not to age at all. People are doing crazy things, so they don't want aging, the natural aging to occur, even infusing blood from a teenage into their bodies. I mean, doing all kinds of crazy things. But, you know, still, the healthy aging can be, you know, you can embrace the healthy aging by changing your lifestyle and dietary modifications. I mean, look at in our country, we have 80 year olds who are presidents in this country. So

Jeffrey Besecker: With varying effects, I will add that, with varying effects and hopefully remaining very objective about that. We can just observe differences in others and be mindful of them.

Amita Sharma: Absolutely, absolutely, yes.

Jeffrey Besecker: We have to be able to discuss those things with some mode of openness and vulnerability. There are inherent realities at play there, so I'll keep it at that at best. wrapping us up today, bringing us back to that idea of being mindful of these transitions and phases. Also, being mindful of the stigmas that sometimes arise in how having a diverse view and being open to diverse experiences helps shift us through some of those stigmas. Shifting cultural narratives reframes menopause as an opportunity for renewal and deeper self-discovery. So from that perspective, finally, today, what does it mean to redefine menopause as a period of empowerment and personal growth from your perspective?

Amita Sharma: Yes. Women are, you know, self-discovery, like you said, self-reinvention, reinvention. self-love, self-esteem, self-care. That is what, to me, a woman should be, you know, associating menopause with, right? There is this whole stress of menstrual, monthly menstrual cycle is gone, okay? That is the positive. I personally think it should be associated that this whole stress of that is gone. And now you need to live your life, you know, the way you want to and do the things that you always thought that you wanted to do. this should be a phase of discovery, a rediscovery, you know, doing something that you love. That is what I would say that as a, you know, putting behind all the cultural inhibitions and all the mystery, embrace this stage of life and be who you are and discover yourself and do something that you love to do. That it should be like that in societies all over the world for that matter. not really again going back under the rug, you know?

Jeffrey Besecker: So to sum things up today, what are three tips or practices you can offer our listeners that help shift our perceived identity constructs when going through, or when women are going through again, these changes associated with menopause phases of their life?

Amita Sharma: So I would say, you know, invest in yourself, right? That's number one. I really tell everyone. Number two is believe in yourself when no one else does. The reason I make this statement is because during this phase of life, you might be shifting your work. You know, the work that you've been doing all these years, you might want to come into some new business or some new, you know, some kind of a new career. So you believe in yourself. And then the third thing is, I think self-care and elevating your self-esteem and voicing your thoughts is what I would say, but maintaining a delicate balance of respecting the diversity and the inclusivity and the equity we're talking about, but at the same time making your within the society and the community is important by if you do that, if you self-love yourself, if you invest in yourself, you will be able to give back to the community. If you're not happy from inside out, you will not be able to give that happiness. So it's important for women to invest in themselves, self-care, self-love, all of the above, and believing in themselves.

Jeffrey Besecker: I want to thank you for sharing your insights with us today. This has been such a valuable learning experience for me as a male identifying human being to support female identifying human beings throughout life, throughout all of the phases of their life. So thank you so much for sharing your insight with us today.

Amita Sharma: It's been a pleasure, Jeffrey. I really appreciate it. I wish I could speak the language you talk, but I tried my best.

Jeffrey Besecker: I have been very intentional today in trying to challenge a lot of not only my own belief systems, but hopefully tiptoeing us up culturally to challenge those perspectives and simply question them. Where might we adapt, change and evolve some of those perspectives?

Amita Sharma: Yes, absolutely. And you've done an amazing job. So thank you for that.

Jeffrey Besecker: Thank you. Thank you for sharing your light today. It has all been done on the strength of your knowledge and wisdom. So I truly, truly would love to have you come back and look further at this topic. Addressing a four to 10 year window of a human being's life in an hour is going to do relatively little to solve all of the problems in that time frame. I'd love to come back and explore it with greater depth and nuance.

Amita Sharma: Thank you. I would love that. Thank you so much.

Jeffrey Besecker: Thank you so much for sharing with us. Where can our listeners reach out to you and your platform to learn more, not only about navigating these changes through menopause, but throughout some of the core experiences women experience throughout life. Let me frame that.

Amita Sharma: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, people can go to www.nourishtalk.com. We are coming up with an app in March on the, with the intent to help women navigate this whole journey. And it's going to be super affordable. The, you know, like $10 a month, uh, we wanted to become super affordable so that we present evidence-based trustworthy information. So please help us give feedback and go to our website. And when the app is ready, we will be posting it on our website.

Jeffrey Besecker: Thank you so much for sharing that. We implore our listeners to reach out to that platform and grow and learn as human beings. So thank you again. It's been such a pleasure and I look forward to connecting again soon.

Amita Sharma: Thank you. Thank you so much, Jeffrey.

Jeffrey Besecker: Today we explored how menopause is not an ending, but a powerful transition. One that, when reframed, allows women to reclaim their identity and well-being. Throughout this episode, we've uncovered how cultural conditioning, cognitive dissonance, and internal perfectionism carry barriers to accessing accurate information and embracing this life phase with confidence. Integrating trauma-informed approaches, somatic regulation, and cognitive reframing allows a woman to move beyond stigma and foster resilience. The key to navigating menopause with clarity and strength lies in rewriting the narratives inherited, turning this chapter into one of renewal, self-awareness, and empowerment. If you found value and meaning in this episode, please, by all means, share it with a friend or loved one, especially a male counterpart who you feel might gain its benefit. And as always, we're grateful for you, our valued listening community. This has been The Light Inside. I'm Jeffrey Besecker.