The Magnetic Heart of God- Understanding the Five Cravings of Your Soul with Cory Rosenke

00:00 Jeffrey Besecker This is The Light Inside. I'm Jeffrey Biesecker. The soul. Have you ever found yourself wondering just why it is we have one? With agony and ecstasy, and often with massive doses of intrepidation, in the questions of the soul we often find ourselves lingering and feeling somewhat disoriented. The soul, as a spiritual anchor, prepares us for our journey here on earth. Why? Because we are wonderfully made. Nevertheless, this still leaves us searching for the ever-deepening why that often seems to elude our comprehension. Joining us today is author, pastor, lifelong philosopher, and ambitious theologian, Corey Rosenke. As we embark on this adventure weaving through the origins of ancient past, trekking the hidden mysteries of a promising future, and boldly navigating the uncertainties of your personal now to discover answers to this ever-burning question, just why do we have a soul? Tune in to find out the answer to this and the many questions of the soul when we return to The Light Inside. On an existential plane where groundbreaking philosophy, sound theology, proven psychology, and universal experience, there rests a point of convergence known as the soul. Today we cut through all the pop culture chatter about the soul. It would seem the soul of humanity were designed itself for questioning. questioning itself beginning with the quest, figuratively, metaphorically, and even in its entomology or source. The quest for awareness, for knowledge, for understanding, for wisdom, and in an infinite unwinding, the quest for truth. In our children we hear the murmurings of inquisitiveness. How did the world begin? Why is the sky blue? What makes water wet? And where do we go when we die? And with painstaking detail and intricacy, we often ponder our deepest purpose. In the toils of the soul, a human's search for meaning can often be seen equally as our deepest trial, noteworthy triumph, and ultimately the inevitableness of our greatest revelations. Still the hard truth is, as Henry David Thoreau pointed out, the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. And this poses a problem. Why is it that we have a soul? Just as every epic tale begins with an amazing story that strengthens our connection with the character within, the story of the soul deserves nothing less. And so we begin. Corey, in today's episode, we're embarking on a profound journey to explore the enigmatic nature of the soul from a multitude of angles, looking at the potential factors that shape our concept of soul and how we can experience the soul's depth and ultimately how our conscious patterns and biases can inhibit our ability to create a deeper, more soulful connection to consciousness. So with that in mind, let's start by exploring how you, Corey, define the nature of soul and the role consciousness plays in shaping our understanding of it from your perspective.

03:20 Cory Rosenke Sure. I appreciate that. So when I talk about the soul, I generally will say this. I'm talking about our non-biological selves. I often think that is the best way to present it. I think it's an important way to present it because we tend to walk through life. We tend to approach relationship, education, career, whatever it is, through the lens of the biological only. I look at you and I think I know you by the shape that I see. or by the diploma on your wall. It seems to be biological or psychological, almost exclusive. I often say that our modern culture is obsessed with catering to the cravings of the biological and the psychological. So when I'm talking about the soul, I'm really talking about that which lies beneath, which I would call the true light, as from your title, that which lies in belief, that non-biological part that almost everybody agrees exists, but we don't live like it exists. And so when I talk about the non-biological selves, I'm talking about really the source of human behavior, the source of human ambition. And I would argue that oftentimes as exciting as my own journey has been in delving into psychology and into neuroscience and all those different areas, Those are studies of mechanism. They are not studies of source. And that's a contentious issue for a lot of people. It's a new thought for a lot of people because we, in our culture, are so used to thinking we are biological and we are psychological. Of course, those two things are. Psychological is biological. But I divide them just simply for the point of understanding. I believe that there is a light that lies underneath. And so do most people, by the way. As we take polls, most people believe they have a soul. The challenge is, and my mission has been, to remove the ambiguity. Because most of us, when we think of the soul, it is ambiguous. It can fit any framework, any place we want it, any context. And so, of course, my goal is to try to define it a little bit, to give us something to latch onto.

05:16 Jeffrey Besecker So from that perspective, how would you view that experience of the soul as at its core level, an energetic existence within a larger realm of consciousness?

05:29 Cory Rosenke Well, I think that if we're going to understand, I think when you think of a larger level of consciousness, it's a very interesting statement, right? Consciousness. I was actually thinking about this very thing this morning. What is consciousness, right? And I think there would be an argument in academia today that would suggest that kind of the root of consciousness would be self-awareness. And that, to be honest, is the exact area where I believe the conversation of the soul needs to happen. Because how can we claim to be a self-aware people when we are ignoring or at least not factoring into our daily equation, the deepest part of each one of us, right? And so as far as a social aspect of it, one of the things I love to talk about the soul in regards to that is to say that the soul is the great leveler. When I'm looking at you biologically, when you look at me biologically, we see differences. We perhaps have biases to our pasts and whatever we think of racism or sexism or all these things that have kind of grown or evolved out of looking at each other biologically. But when we look at each other as souls, we suddenly find ourselves in fluid unity. And there is no visual thing for us to divide or to disagree upon. And so from a social conscious point of view, I believe that when we start to look at ourselves more holistically, when I start to look at you more holistically as well, there is a natural synergy and energy, a natural connection that you and I suddenly meld together on. And I think that's an important movement our culture needs to move towards is seeing ourselves in that more holistic manner.

07:09 Jeffrey Besecker From that perspective, we often only frame our point of reference from this physical realm of being. What happens when we do meet that energetic shift? And I say energetic shift where we leave there again, this biological realm in that energy continues forward. I'd love to hear your perspective on that transitory nature of the soul and how it continues forward Energetically beyond that keep that very open and hopefully become ambiguous in its nature just by asking Right, it's good.

07:42 Cory Rosenke It's kind of broad for sure But but I think that when if we're going to talk about that we need to talk about what the soul is I mean if we're going to talk about interaction and unity and melding, you know What is the soul? What is it looking for? It needs to be somewhat defined if we're going to find that connection. And so, when I talk about the soul, I talk about the five cravings of the soul. And when I talk about the five cravings of the soul, really I'm talking about the five core motivators of all human activity and all human ambition. You know, I would pose to your audience and to yourself that there are five core cravings that are deeper than psychology. Right. And the reason I call them deeper than psychology is because they go beyond biology. And these five cravings have propelled every human in history to make every decision we've ever done throughout all of time, every gender, every generation. Right. And when I say those sentences, it sounds big, but it also sounds very unifying. Right. We're all looking for the same thing. It's a fascinating concept. If I look at the world around me and I see the chaos, you know, or all the drive that is going on around me, when I look at it through the lens of the soul, in my context, specifically the five cravings of the soul, it births in me compassion. It grows in me patience. Right. Because I know what I'm looking for and I know what this person is looking for. And therefore, because I understand their behavior, I can, as I mentioned, have patience with them. I can have compassion with them. I can want to come alongside them and help them move to the place they're trying to go. Whereas if I if I'm just looking at you through a biological lens, I have no idea who you are. I don't know what your background is. I don't know if you come from abuse or if you come from from a loving family. I don't know if you've experienced poverty or if you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth. And there's all these things that kind of, there's a barrier between us that probably even in this conversation, we're going to try to feel out a little bit, who is this person? Do they come from a religious background or an atheistic background or what is it? But when we kind of look at each other through the lens of the soul, there is a simplicity and there is a unity that emerges. I'm not sure if that answers your question in any way or not. But I think first off, for me, if we're talking about the soul, my goal is to remove the ambiguity. And so for me, I pose the soul has five cravings, five ambitions through which we can understand it. I'll just drop them really quick now.

10:03 Jeffrey Besecker Of course, I've written a whole book to explain them, but they're the source of discussion.

10:08 Cory Rosenke The reason you and I are here today, the reason certain people are running for president of the United States and certain people aren't, the reason some people are working on their third doctorate and other people quit school in grade 10 is all the same. It's just been channeled and diverted into different places. We're looking for security, identity, independence, significance, and innocence. Those are the five cravings that I pose beyond psychology. They're beneath psychology. They are the source. When we look at psychology or neuroscience or something that I really geeked out on for a long time, we're looking at dominoes falling, a process happening. But what we always have to do is say, what pushed that domino over? What started it all? And I oppose. It was the craving of the soul. It was security, identity, independence, significance, or innocence that started that domino falling in a specific direction. And when we understand the soul in that way, when I understand you, Jeffrey, are a soul, more than biology, you are non-biological, the core of who you are, the light inside you. And what you are ultimately looking for is security, identity, independence, significance, and innocence. And you've probably been looking for them in different places than I have. And yet we are both looking for the same thing. And when I can see my friends in Africa looking for the same thing, and my friends in Europe looking for the same thing, Canada, Mexico, United States, right? There is this great unity that comes forward, that comes together when we start to see each other in this lens. And which is why I'm so passionate about talking about this, this very, very topic. I believe, first off, that they are the key to happiness and peace, but they are also the key to unity.

11:45 Jeffrey Besecker When we look at soul from that aspect, to me, that does bridge that gap that reunifies that concept of the biology and psychology with the more spiritual and energetic realms by looking at the five factor model of personality, essentially seeking those same five core things. Considering the five factors of agreeableness, conscientiousness, extroversion, neuroticism, and openness to experience, we're typically modeled to look at the idea of neuroticism from a very filtered, implicitly biased lens, picking and choosing often the more negative, adverse, or unhealthy, quote unquote, aspects of that, rather than focusing on a more holistic view. So I'm going to simply throw that in today. and kind of flex because I'm hoping to bridge that gap in ambiguity because sometimes that ambiguity arises from that sense of duality or separateness where we see an either-or approach.

12:46 Cory Rosenke Right. And when you realize that most definitely our pursuit Our life choices, our environmental factors have caused us to pursue in different places, but it is the same five things we are pursuing. There's one person who, let's say that there's, I'm going to make up names here, John and Jill, right? John grew up in an abusive home. And John found security through invisibility. He didn't enter the room. He hid. He became that loner, right? But that is the place that he found his security. And so he grows up in life and he's the kind of person in the staff meeting who never takes the lead, never wants to be the guy. I have the idea. He finds his security in that background role, right? And that comes from his trauma from childhood. Then you got Jill. Jill's the exact opposite. She too experienced trauma in her childhood, right? But for her, she has to take control. In order for her to feel safe, she has to be in control. And so she's that person that staff meeting who has to be seen, who has to be heard, who has to stand up, who has to lead everything. Some people love her, some people hate her because she's always there. You know, both John and Jill, or if those were the names I used originally, are seeking security, but they're looking for it in different places. Right. And I often will say this, if you meet someone and they offer you security, identity, independence, significance, and innocence, you will want to engage with that person. If you meet someone and you find that there is something about them that is threatening your security, identity, independence, significance, or innocence, you will flee. You will avoid that person. And those, I said, those five core cravings, those root cravings within us, right? They're the reason why some people are absolutely desperate to get married. They're hoping that in connection with someone, right, or in relationship with someone, they're going to find security. They're going to find identity. They don't want to threaten their independence though, but they're going to find significance in that relationship. It's going to be a place where they feel good about themselves. They are innocent. And it's the same reason why certain people get divorced. They went into a relationship and they realized, I'm not finding security. I'm not finding identity or independence or significance or innocence. And so they leave it. When you look at all of human activity, I pose, we can boil it down to these five cravings of the soul and that simplicity. brings understanding and compassion, which gives us the opportunity for unparalleled unity.

15:09 Jeffrey Besecker Without straying too far down that path, because each of those aspects can be dissected from a number of perspectives, can also be interjected with a lot of different causal patterns behind them. Staying on focus with traveling with that notion of the soul, I'm in step and in agreement with you on those. Let's look at the role implicit bias plays in creating a distorted or subjective perspective regarding the nature of soul and how might this limit our ability to access more expanded dimensions of conscious You know, we're not here just kind of as a diversionary tactic from our soul journey, our overall continued existence. We often view that, as you mentioned, through that lens of this is only a certain stage, or sometimes we look at it as the only stage. It's a strain off course itself. So how might this limit our ability to access more expanded dimensions of conscious being via the soul?

16:09 Cory Rosenke So we are three part beings. I would post to you body, mind, and soul. I would also post you this. That means we are two parts, mortal, one part, immortal, and we are a collaboration of these three parts, right? And when the immortal kind of is connected with the mortal, it can sometimes become messy. Right. And and so but but the part that I try to keep telling people is the soul is not something that activates after we die, which is 10. Again, we tend to wander through life thinking biological, psychological, biological, psychological. And my soul will somehow activate at the point of death, right? I would pose the opposite of that, right? Your soul is bold and insistent. It is alive with desire. It sends directives to the mind. The mind sends directives to the body. And so when we're looking at neuroscience, when we're looking at psychology, we're looking at a filter process, right? The soul says, Corey, you are craving significance, right? It sends that message to the brain, that brain through its different life experiences, its choices, its environments, right? Releases chemicals that cause me to kind of move into a specific direction. And so as far as that limiting our threefold being kind of limiting our ability for greater consciousness, I would say that that is the reason why we have these two weaker elements that are in a stage of decay. that have been abused or misused or placed on the shelf. And I think that to a certain degree, I don't want to say the soul is trapped within us, but it is definitely connected to this decaying part of me, this flesh. And ultimately, I believe that it is the flesh and our psychological limits, our biological limits that are impeding our soul, which will one day finally be released. you know, from connection with his biological and our non-biological selves, we'll find that relief.

18:03 Jeffrey Besecker With that in mind, we're looking again at that idea of unification. Very often, as you mentioned, we get in those various states of conflict, decay, disharmony, disconnection, ultimately resistance of those energetic sources. Corey, you've developed a personal ideology after having explored a wide range of frameworks in theory. Yeah. I'd like to frame it that way because you yourself have established that standard or character of being open and exploring. So what role do you feel ego development plays in the development of the soul or connection with the soul? And how do you feel our ego development intersects with the journey of understanding our soul's nature?

18:51 Cory Rosenke Well, if I'm talking about ego, I'm going to, I'm going to, so I'm just going to keep it simple at this particular moment. But if I'm connecting to ego now, I guess it depends what we mean by ego. Do we mean a Freud, you know, ego, super ego, or do we mean, which I think we were probably talking about more of a, like an ego, which we might talk about today, a puffed up, you know, persona. I'm going to go with the puffed up persona because that might be what we're talking about, but that particularly. I would connect it immediately to significance. I always say, you show me a control freak. I'll show you someone who is desperately seeking security or significance, someone who is trying to climb the ladder. And so if I'm connecting ego or if I'm trying to associate it with kind of the cravings of the soul, my first place I would look and there are many places would be, I would say somebody with ego is seeking significance. Or we could also possibly say identity that are looking for a significant identity. That's the thing about the cravings of the soul. Sometimes they're distinct, sometimes they're merged. It's hard to tell where one begins and the other one ends. So significance is an example. I should add this. The five cravings of the soul are neither good nor evil. What makes them quote unquote good or evil is how we choose to pursue them. So in this case of significance and ego, significance is the very thing that propels us to make something beautiful. to move beyond just mere functionality and create a beautiful world, a beautiful product. If we didn't have a craving for significance, everything we made would just be functional. But because of that craving for significance, we have a craving for beauty. We have a craving for betterment. And that's a beautiful and good thing. The problem where ego comes in, I would say ego kind of grows when significance is pursued in an unhealthy way. If we're talking about somebody with an ego, we're generally talking about somebody who has a puffed up view of themselves. They've put high walls around themselves to protect that puffed up view. Right. And they generally will minimize or subjugate or somehow suppress others for the purpose of keeping themselves elevated. Right there. Oftentimes the unhealthy pursuit of significance is somebody who is wanting to sense that they are special in some way, but rather than beautifully working towards that through hard work and dedication, pursue the easier route of just, I'm just going to subjugate you, Jeffrey. I'm just going to make you feel small, right? In order to elevate myself. So I'm not sure if that's the definition of ego that you're particularly talking about, but in that context, right, I would say that the person of ego is the person who is, oh, geez, you know, as I think about this too, if somebody is in my office and we're talking about these things and we're, you know, my first thought might move towards significance, but another thought would be security. You know, oftentimes ego is a facade. Ego is a method of self-protection. The person with a big ego is oftentimes someone who at the core of themselves, they feel unsafe. And so they are building a persona around them to protect themselves. That's at least what I found oftentimes. So again, I don't know if that answers your question, but that's how I bring those two things together.

22:06 Jeffrey Besecker That's kind of that traditional dare I say traditional freudian hundred-year-old perspective of ego and kind of a binary Let's pick out all the grab bags of negative and maybe subjectively limiting aspects and functions of ego and ego development, you know, we look at progression now and we shift towards theories by jan levinger and susan cook gruder and that look at the more expanded evolutionary, soul-engaged perhaps, evolution of ego, where it's simply a lens or filter working for our entire good. So often in life, things can and do often go awry. You know, we have various influences and factors. From that elevated, more evolved notion of ego development, We work from that same framework where there are those aspects that are more protective, they are filtering, they are more emotionally driven to protect, to serve, and sometimes even inflate, puff up, and dominate. From that healthy, bounced perspective of ego, we also see where that same ego wakes us up each day, motivates us toward our benefit to maintain our health, our well-being, our sustenance. creates goals, we have to have that value filter in place to say this is meaningful. There is a value added protective mechanism that says I'm working for my soul's higher good. I'm elevating toward that higher consciousness. I am serving my present best concept of self. within this moment and towards a future moment, while also looking with a healthy perspective at my past experience or past concept of self. So I know that might be a little different direction. How do you feel that meshes and interacts with your current perspective?

24:11 Cory Rosenke I love this conversation and I love hearing from you. I can hear your background, so to speak, and the things that are your passion coming out. What I also notice is interesting is, as an example, you're using the word ego. in a different way. Like when we're talking about the ego, it's interesting. We're both using the same language, right? There is a different definition attached to those things, right? And it's interesting because you called it a more evolved one. Now, is it more evolved or is it just different?

24:43 Jeffrey Besecker That would be an interesting- There again, that's a great insight because that in and of itself points out my own implicit bias. And I'm glad you did that today because I can recognize that. with emotional regulation, with that energetic alignment, say, thank you, Corey, because that did become either subconscious or unconscious deflection of that same level of ego. You know, it stepped in briefly into that kind of conflated thing that was diminishing in some regards. So thank you for pointing that out. Well, it's an interesting concept too, because C.S.

25:18 Cory Rosenke Lewis said something that was really interesting. C.S. Lewis talked about the word gentlemen. See, we live in a world today that's very interesting because we have begun redefining words. I don't know that that's always wrong, but it definitely takes a while before at some point we got to get on the same page with what a word means, right? But C.S. Lewis said this, C.S. Lewis talked about the word gentlemen. He said, there was a time when the word gentlemen simply meant a man of property. That was the original term, a man of property. And then someone came along and said, but isn't it better to be a good person? You know, to be a nice person, you know, wouldn't that be better than being a man of property? And so the word gentleman has evolved to what it is today. Oh, you're such a gentleman. Generally, like I'm going to say that if you held the door open for me or you pulled the seat out before I sat, you're such a gentleman. Right. The meaning changed. And C.S. Lewis talks about the frustration and even the futility of that. He said there was a word, there was already a phrase for that. Jeffrey's a nice guy. Right. But, but without permission, somebody somehow changed the definition of a word. Right. And now it's more confusing because there's these contrary, you know, there's different words attached to different meanings. Right. And so it's, it's very interesting how, and that's why I'm, I'm a big believer in Occam's razor. Keep it simple, man. You know, and oftentimes I think that the, uh, That's all often when I'm approaching clients or problems, I really have found Occam's razor to be true. The simplest solution is often the right one. That's why I have … I've got to say this first. I didn't go in search of the soul when I found it. I didn't go in search of cravings when I found it. I started off as a child growing up in poverty asking the question, why? Why is the world the way it is? Why do people do what they do? To be honest, why do my caregivers make the decisions they make versus the caregiver of my friend who's made a different decision? Why? I was asking that question, why? And from when I was 11 and 12 years old, man, I was into philosophy. I was digging into Aristotle and Plato and Marcus Aurelius to me is a very underrated philosopher. Marcus Aurelius was really great, Confucius. I love the study of philosophy, but philosophy, it didn't answer that deep core question, which really moved me into psychology. And that's the interesting thing. So when I was, I brought up Freud, you're right, I have a bias there. I will say I've never been a fan of Freud. To me, the more you get into Freud, the more kind of you're like, oh man. There's some weird stuff going on here. But my first step into psychology was introduced by Freud in the Id and the Ego and the Super Ego. That's why I was kind of asking those particular terms. The development of what he called personality was through those areas. Didn't find the answer in psychology. And then I got really, really excited about neuroscience. You start talking about the neuroplasticity of the brain and how it can literally change over time. When you think specific thoughts, ruts are formed in your brain. But if you, through accountability and willpower, choose to think in a different direction, new ruts will form in your brain. Change is possible. And then you think of dopamine and serotonin and all the chemicals. But again, I realized I'm studying mechanics. I'm studying mechanism. I'm not studying source, which then led me into looking at the soul, the light underneath. Right. And so for me, I guess I've kind of talked a lot here, but my point being Occam's razor. That's a beautiful thing I love about the study of the soul, security, identity, independence, significance, innocence. As long as we don't change the meaning of security or innocence or those things. Occam's razor, it keeps it simple. It helps us understand each other. It pushes aside all of these modern ways where we have become disunified or disconnected in our thinking because we literally apply different meaning to different words.

29:17 Jeffrey Besecker And we can look at that from the perspective of going back to one unified source, again, that sole source, that light source, which is what we've kind of adopted and adapted as our collective, largely held belief of that source. to that basic principle again when you look at the nature of nature itself. That's kind of an oxymoron to say the nature of nature itself, but nevertheless, we look at the core foundations of nature typically revolve around basic patterns of three, five, and seven that just simply replicate sacred geometry, in quotes, as a cultural reference point now. Simply replicating the same patterns of energy in, dare I say, integratively more complex ways is just larger and larger doses of the same core foundational simplicity. Yeah.

30:15 Cory Rosenke Simplicity. Five cravings of the soul. I don't know how that fits into your thinking, but it is shocking.

30:21 Jeffrey Besecker It's rather ambiguous in and of itself.

30:25 Cory Rosenke It is interesting. We talk about the five elements, the five senses, right? The five love languages. You've probably heard of that, which kind of got really popular for a while, right? The five cravings of the soul. There's so many things there. Yeah. I mean, as far as numbers and connectivity, I know I'm not so up on that type of scenario, so I couldn't speak too much to that.

30:47 Jeffrey Besecker The soul wants what the soul wants. An often repeated frame of reference that can leave us endlessly questioning the bewildering nature of soul, and our purpose for being here, in this material realm of our current existence. The meaning of soul can be perplexing and evasive, and often shrouded in mystery, leaving us with a profound sense of wonder and curiosity. Where do we fit in when discerning our place within the greater cosmic order? The soul is a concept that transcends physical boundaries and defining it can be difficult. Part spiritual force that connects us to something greater than ourselves and gives us a sense of purpose and meaning. It's a source of strength and resilience, helping us to find our place in the greater universal order. But how, and even more essentially, why? Corey, from the aspect of our being, how do you feel we discover this greater why when feeding our soul and creating deeper spiritual meaning?

31:48 Cory Rosenke Well, I think it comes down to if we're going to ask, what is my purpose? You really it's like if you're going to ask what is the purpose of a hammer, you want to ask why it was designed to start with. And I think that that is a question that I think that is important for us to ask if we're going to. I don't think people are asking that question when it comes to purpose very often. They're treating it as somehow independent.

32:08 Jeffrey Besecker Looking for an outside source to kind of give them that key a lot of times from a lot of different perspectives and for a lot of different causal sources. I'll put it that way. A lot of that is simply conditioned in implicit memory, implicitly imprinted belief.

32:25 Cory Rosenke Well, it's interesting because I often will say, sometimes I'm confronted with people who are like, hey, what evidence do you have that there's a soul? And this is a very new question, to be perfectly honest. In the all historic time, it's only been in recent times that people are suddenly asking this question. And it's not because of some newly discovered science, it's because of a different cultural perspective. So I often say this, consider this. Virtually every culture in the history of the world, without cohesion, independent, came to the same conclusion, that we exist beyond biology. It doesn't matter if they built their houses out of buffalo hide, or snow, or sticks, or rock, whether they were hunter-gatherers or farmers. They all came to the same conclusion that we exist beyond biology. And religion, I believe, began. The reason there's so many religions of the world, it was people trying to explain, trying to give a framework, a description for what they already knew about their non-biological selves. If we exist non-biologically, we have to admit there's something out there we don't understand. There's something big. And so all these religions began as cultures tried to explain what they knew about themselves. The North American Indians believed in a soul long before the Europeans landed at Plymouth Rock. Both people believed in a soul. Now the Europeans brought a religion, they did not bring an awareness of the soul. The same thing, Romans believed in a soul, the Britons believed in a soul. So the Romans did not bring the knowledge of the souls of the Britons when they landed their boats north of the White Cliffs of Dover. And the same thing, Africa, each individual place came to an awareness in the soul before they were ever subject to outside influence. To me, it's as scientific as it gets. that we have the soul, that we have the internal testimony. There's something within us that knows us, knows this, right? We crave different things than the other creatures around us. There is something unique. And then of course you have this, what I call, like I said, the evidence of of uncoerced conclusion, unanimous and uncoerced conclusion, the whole globe essentially coming to the same conclusion, that we exist beyond biology. So if we're going to attach it to purpose, we have to ask why, which of course is the fundamental human question that we first began as very little children. I remember my kids when they were little, why, why, why, why? Just relentless pursuit. Maybe we ask it less as we get older.

34:52 Jeffrey Besecker That's an interesting one to look at in and of itself. Let's earmark that. I'm going to earmark that. Yeah. Why resort to why as our first line of inquiry? I'm going to earmark that for future exploration.

35:06 Cory Rosenke Well, I would say we ask it in an attempt to make sense of it and feel safe in the world around us. Yeah. Right. There's this desire to ask why. And the older we get, we perhaps ask it less, but the questions become more urgent. There's a higher urgency to the question of why. And so if we're looking for purpose, I believe, I'll share with you what I believe on two different levels. First off, if someone is looking for purpose, you're going to have to fulfill the purpose of your creation, right? If the five core cravings of your soul are security, identity, independence, and significance, and innocence, I believe that from a simply spiritual sense, our purpose is to experience. security, identity, independence, significance, and innocence. And then on another level, it's for me to help you discover security, identity, independence, significance, and innocence. From a spiritual level, I've written a book called The Magnetic Heart of God, Understanding the Five Cravings of Your Soul. And I approach this book on many levels, the psychological, the theological, the philosophical, but I oppose that these five cravings were placed in us by our Creator on purpose, for the purpose of drawing us back to Him, in whom we find life and fullness and peace. Um, and so as far as finding purpose goes, I believe that once again, purpose is deeply connected to our core craving, our core design. And I can tell you what, if you, you will not find a purpose outside of those five cravings. I can't think of a way you would.

36:43 Jeffrey Besecker I think you hit that nail in the head, so to speak, when we're looking at the purpose of a hammer hitting the nail in the head, meeting our target at that notion of the heart. Harmonic resonance being thought as the energetic state of alignment. In that resonance, you know, we're meeting those same needs, same desires, same demands, same core ideological assets of our existence through that alignment, through those tools of awareness and through that ability to align those various states. We are here, whatever here is, in our constructed belief of a physical embodiment. When we do start to dissect that physical embodiment down to those core five elements, we look at harmonic resonance of the heart, heart rate variable and heart resonance being an aligned frequency. We look at somatic embodiment, the overall shell of that moving in an energetic harmony that's aligned. We look at the alignment within psychology and we dissect that in an infinitely numerable amount of ways, and I'll say it that way, but ultimately looking for that resonance, that energetic alignment, that meets ultimately the alignment of the soul.

38:08 Cory Rosenke Well, it's interesting you use the word heart there too, because when the word, generally when we use the word heart, unless we're specifically talking about the biological sense, your heart, which again, the origins of that statement go back to a non-biological statement. Most of the times when we talk about the human heart, we're talking about the soul. We're talking about our non-biological selves. Where the Olympics is going to come up next year, and we're going to hear all this phrasing about the triumph of the human spirit. Or we're going to talk about the heart of man, this man or this woman that has driven them forward to succeed and achieve. We're talking about our non-biological selves. And the word heart became a physical term because it was originally to describe, like if you look back into ancient Greek, ancient Hebrew or whatever, the word heart means the core of who you are, the center of your being, the light inside. which is right on the parallel with what it talks about with the soul. And so we have two hearts to a certain degree, our biological heart, right? And then that core heart that lies beneath, which is the original term. The physical heart was named after the non-biological heart, right? It became used as the center of our biological selves, right? Um, so you're, I mean, you're right. There is that connectivity between all of these phrases, all of these wordings, but ultimately the reason that I became so excited when I discovered and to be honest, that's exactly what it was. Like I said, I did not go looking for the five cravings of the soul. I was asking the question, why? And I kept asking the question, why? Through philosophy, through psychology, through neuroscience, and then realizing it is something that lies beneath. And I think that it's important that if people are going to find peace and happiness, they need to have some mechanism, some structure, which they can sweep away all the verbiage, all the noise, all the bias, all of the different unending phrases and books and definitions and bring it to a simple point. And so I would tell people this. If you're looking for peace, if you're looking for happiness, they are not ambiguous. They are clearly defined security, identity, independence, significance, innocence. That is where peace resides. That is where happiness resides. And here's the tricky part is, and this is why this is, again, this is just letting you know, my progression. Peace as an example, let's just choose peace. Peace requires that all five core humanities, this was sometimes what I call them, the craving to the soul or the five core humanities are satisfied simultaneously. Meaning I can feel safe. And of course, when I talk about safety, and I break this down in my book, I'm not just talking about physical safety, I'm talking about relational safety, right? There's physical and there's relational safety. I can feel relationally safe and physically safe. I can be confident in who I am. I can have my identity ask the question, who am I? Why am I? What is my purpose? Do I have value? Four symbiotic questions. I can have those two things. But if I feel like someone is making me feel guilty, if I don't feel innocent, I do not have peace. Or I can feel innocent, right? I can feel like I'm a righteous, good person. I can feel that I'm special. And I can know who I am. If I'm unsafe, if I feel like someone's about to break in my home, I don't have peace. People who are looking for peace, peace demands that security, identity, independence, significance, and innocence are satisfied simultaneously. That's why peace is oftentimes so fleeting. We experience those moments. where all of them are satisfied simultaneously and then it disappears. That's why I pose to you that these cravings of the soul were designed to draw us back to our maker, because I believe at the end of the day, the only place where you can find the five cravings satisfied at the same time, it's not going to be in your career. It's not going to be with the person you're living with. It's not going to be with your friends who move away or get offended with you. It's only going to be found in your maker. And that's ultimately what led me down. I'm asking the question as a child, why, why, why, why, why? Found the five cravings of the soul, but the five cravings of the soul are a problem if I don't have a place where they can be satisfied at the same time, which is why I believe they can only be satisfied in our maker.

42:27 Jeffrey Besecker Rory, thank you for sharing this deeply meaningful and thoughtful conversation today. I am deeply moved today by the connection we've had and by this soul connection we've shared. Namaste, brother, the light in me acknowledges the light in you. If there's anything else you might add today or one tip or takeaway we might take away from this conversation, what would that be?

42:52 Cory Rosenke What I would want to leave people with is this, more than a brain or a body, You are a soul. And before we we kind of get defensive or we celebrate together and say, I know that I agree with you, I would post to you. Let's start living like it. Because there is a difference between knowing it and knowing it, right? And when I understand that more than my biological self, I am a non-biological self. And when I can look at you and realize that more than a biological self, you are a non-biological self, that gives me the opportunity for understanding. Understanding gives me the opportunity for compassion. Compassion gives us the opportunity for unity. So I would say it is an imperative that you begin your journey at the starting point of understanding your holistic self. You are a body, a mind, and a soul. And the reason we see, I believe, the chaos in the world today. I'll just close with this. When you think of it, it's crazy when you think of it. We live in a time of unprecedented prosperity. You know, we can say never before literally in the history of the world has a generation like our generation being granted access to education, to the opportunity for financial advancement, comfort, leisure, right? We could go on and on. We have more than any generation in the history of the world. And yet virtually every study shows we are more unhappy than ever. We're depressed. We are discouraged. There's confusion underneath the surface. I can definitely say this as someone who's living in America now, there is this tension, this building rage. How is this possible? And I believe that at the root of it, it's because we in our modern culture have become obsessed over the cravings and the desires of the body and the brain. Everything is this every TV commercial, every TV show, every promise by every politician. It's always the body and the brain, the body and the brain. And we have lost connection with our core selves, our souls. And so I would encourage people to awaken to that deeper part of you, that light inside. And I'm excited to just think about where that journey takes you.

45:08 Jeffrey Besecker Thank you again, my friend, for reconnecting us with that very spiritual message of simply reconnecting with our soul. I'm grateful to see through your perspective and I appreciate your inspiring energy, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. This truly has been great.

45:27 Cory Rosenke And I just want to say this, I really appreciate your, it is clear to me in having a conversation with you that you have perspectives, that you are passionate about those perspectives, that you have spent a life collecting multiple perspectives and honing them. And so your conversations and your questions are definitely, I hear them coming from a deep well, but you also give space and room for new thought. And I just really appreciate that about you.

45:54 Jeffrey Besecker Thank you from my heart to yours. That is truly meaningful and humbling to me to know that I'm hitting my mark in my soul's journey. Great. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.